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Frequency's back room

Who's making noise in and around Madison? What's new in the business of making music around town? Review shows and CDs here. Please keep all hype in Hype Exchange.

Re: Frequency's back room

Postby talagaster » Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:36 pm

zippy wrote:People have fantasies about becoming huge rock stars (a model that mostly does not even exist anymore) because thats what keeps saps coming back for the expolitation. Never mind that the odds of actually achieving this feat are far greater than anyone one band member getting hit by lightening. And you guys think I Am an egomaniac? Hey never mind the stupid crazy odds our band is so brillant we will become ROCK STARS! Why the groupies will just be hanging off of us. RIGHT! The large crowds you have fantasies about in huge arenas are really groups of your friends and family hanging out in a puke stenchy bar you are getting next to nothing to play in. Sorry but thats reality.


I'm not a musician but I do perform regularly at the Frequency. And yes, my audience is small, made up in no small part by my friends. But I don't have any fantasy about performing in front of huge arenas. When I'm on stage before an audience, I'm living the dream. And the high I get off of performing carries me through the rest of the week. If you think that's delusional, so be it. Maybe we are both disconnected from reality, as you seem to live in a world where a cabal of greedy Madison club owners are amassing huge fortunes off the backs of musicians. We both live in delusions, the different is that my fantasy is fun.

Plus, the Frequency (or High Noon for that matter) has never smelt like puke anytime I've been there. It's smelled like sweat, which just means people were rocking out, and rocking out is neat.

Kyle Motor wrote:
Actually that's accurate. Minimum wage for tipped employees is different than general minimum wage rates. If you don't know that, it's pretty clear you have little to no grasp of what you're talking about.

http://www.dwd.state.wi.us/dwd/publications/erd/pdf/erd_9247_p.pdf


Thanks for the law backup, dog!
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Re: Frequency's back room

Postby Endo Rockstar » Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:37 pm

zippy wrote:Ahhhh yes more of the same. Shut up and be happy you get a chance to do what you do for nothing. That person who said waiters and bar tenders get 2.33 an hour is tripping. MINIMUM WAGE HELLO? And yes waiters and bar tenders are entertainers.


haha, I'm actually starting to like this kid. cock-sure and dumb as a stump.

Make sure you always lead with your head, Scrappy, we don't want you to do any real damage to yourself if you run into anything....

-Danimal
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Re: Frequency's back room

Postby ilikebeans » Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:52 pm

zippy, do you whine this much on the mic, too? I'm starting to realize why you have attendance problems.
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Re: Frequency's back room

Postby christopher » Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:01 pm

Kyle Motor wrote:I don't think any musician regularly posting on this board is under the assumption that they are going to be rock stars.



I AM! THAT'S WHY I MOVED OUTTA MADISON 2 YEARS AGO!

Madtown just wasn't able to handle my rock $tar life$tyle !!!$!!!
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Re: Frequency's back room

Postby zippy » Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:07 pm

Oh thank god you got me on the tipped minimum wage deal being different. All that proves is its harder to tell who is getting ripped off worse. Bar staff or musicians. Gee I guess all my other points must be wrong since I got that wrong. This has been a real eye opening experience in projection. Some of you think I am a wet behind the ears kid raising hell and others think I am a burned out bitter madison music scene vet. It's really very funny and entertaining. And sorry if I got the stench cause wrong. We all know sweat is the stench of working class cred after all. Give me a break. If you think being financially exploited is so glamorous you will love the NEXT decade. The very first defense of the exploiter is to point at others who are being exploited and say look at them they are doing it and no complaints from them. Whats your problem? Stop your complaints. Ask any union organizer what the first thing managers are told to do. Pit workers against each other. So your ploys are expected cause its how the game works. Musicians being exploited is the foundation upon which the entire music industry rests. Why what would the Isthmus do without all those little expensive ads for clubs telling you what band is playing for peanuts where? Or without the guide which for most is the only really good reason for its existence? Yes there is money to made of those musicians just not by them.
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Re: Frequency's back room

Postby rabble » Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:14 pm

zippy wrote:Gee I guess all my other points must be wrong since I got that wrong.

It certainly makes your other points suspect, especially since you were so obviously certain you were correct.

If you had said you weren't certain and asked why, it would have given your other points, and your credibility, more weight.
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Re: Frequency's back room

Postby Exploding Pinto » Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:28 pm

zippy wrote:Thanks for the umm discussion folks.
(Pinto if you ever say anything coherent I will be glad to respond.)


Why don’t you let me know what’s got you confused, and I’ll clear it up real nice-like for you? Better yet, since you are having a hard time comprehending stuff in this thread, why don’t you give up this hobby of posting on forums and go back to drooling over an Etch A Sketch? See how that comes off, sunshine?

It goes without saying that your “Gee you guys ARE right. Wah, wah, wah. I don’t know what I was thinking!?” responses are hilarious and really sticking it to folks. But if you want to have a discussion, you have to answer questions and back up your claims with facts. We can handle differing views on the Madison music scene, no sweat. It’s your condescension, as already pointed out, we could do without.

There are a few questions out there:
Where are your facts that Madison musicians make less than they did 30 years ago?
How much money does it take to get you to commit to a 45 minute set?
How would you structure the performance schedule and band pay if you operated a club in town?

Are you going to answer any of these or just drop by to bitch?
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Re: Frequency's back room

Postby Kyle Motor » Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:29 pm

zippy wrote:If you think being financially exploited is so glamorous you will love the NEXT decade. The very first defense of the exploiter is to point at others who are being exploited and say look at them they are doing it and no complaints from them. Whats your problem? Stop your complaints. Ask any union organizer what the first thing managers are told to do. Pit workers against each other. So your ploys are expected cause its how the game works. Musicians being exploited is the foundation upon which the entire music industry rests. Why what would the Isthmus do without all those little expensive ads for clubs telling you what band is playing for peanuts where? Or without the guide which for most is the only really good reason for its existence? Yes there is money to made of those musicians just not by them.

Good grief. Death to the proletariat indeed.
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Re: Frequency's back room

Postby butters » Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:49 pm

ilikebeans wrote:zippy, do you whine this much on the mic, too? I'm starting to realize why you have attendance problems.

In what other field or profession do people criticize and ridicule a fellow worker in their field for suggesting higher pay? Do nurses, teachers, doctors, actors, athletes, academics, etc. face a similar backlash?
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Re: Frequency's back room

Postby chainsawcurtis » Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:14 pm

I don't know if the Frequency has cocktail servers (people who troll ((in a good way)) tables and take orders for drinks) but I'm fairly certain they have bartenders. Having said that it's been my experience (as a manager, club owner etc), that bartenders make at the very least minimum wage. And yes, wait staff at a restaurant or diner is generally paid much lower and expected to make up the taxes of their wage up to the minimum. On paper a table server makes the minimum wage but a good one in a busy restaurant can do much better. Of course the work can be grueling. I've known more than one waiter who was making upwards of $500 a week (in 1987 dollars). They were smart enough to claim a fair amount of it on their Schedule C to show they could handle mortgages, credit lines and such.

I've been holding off on commenting about the thread topic because except for the back and forth personal banter I agree with a lot of what's been said on both sides plus I haven't been to the Frequency yet. It's also been my experience that clubs with a "music room" don't take in enough money to give bands a guarantee if they aren't taking money at the front door. It seems like if you are going to have a music room as opposed to just another bar your clientele would be used to that.

Musicians need to get paid better if they are playing what the public wants to hear when they're out in a bar drinking, trying to socialize, dance, whatever - cover bands, let's say. But if your in a "hobby band" and you want to play your original stuff, more power to you. A place like the Frequency is different than the Badger Bowl in that people who go to the Frequency may have a more discerning ear for music that's not Mustang Sally, U2, or whoever's popular on the radio now (I'm way behind on my radio listening).

I'd love to put together a set of my original material and play someplace in Madison but the guys I work with regularly are used to getting $100 a man to do a gig - a three set, three hour gig in a tavern somewhere. Hell, I can't get guys to walk out the door with their gear for less than that, nor do I ask them to very often. But then again, it's not really a hobby for me as much as an avocation. Something that literally puts groceries on the table.

A thought about the local "hobby bands" though may be that it's time to put only two bands on the bill in a night, play longer sets, work on getting more folks through the door and encouraging the two band's street teams to work together better. Maybe if they need more material they could do some of their other hobby band friend's stuff (I occasionally play material my friends write). Does that make any sense?

And I'd like to say that musicians should all get along but right now I'm struggling with the fact that there are so many folks that have lost their jobs some of them are putting the old band back together and taking work away from the guys who try to make a shitty living at it. "Come on Mr. Bar Owner. We're getting "The Schmontzes" back together. We'll pack your place with our friends and we'll play for $200 and a case of beer." Bastards.
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Re: Frequency's back room

Postby ilikebeans » Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:59 pm

butters wrote:
ilikebeans wrote:zippy, do you whine this much on the mic, too? I'm starting to realize why you have attendance problems.

In what other field or profession do people criticize and ridicule a fellow worker in their field for suggesting higher pay? Do nurses, teachers, doctors, actors, athletes, academics, etc. face a similar backlash?

It's not the point he's making, which he did on page one of this thread; it's the subsequent six pages of whiny sarcasm when others disagree with him.

It's pretty simple-- you want to make money at your art, you have to have art people are going to want to buy. It's called the free market. It's why the occasional strummer or experimental artist might make a few bucks at the door at Mother Fools while tickets for Dave Rawlings Machine last night sold out the High Noon at $25 a head.

I will say, however, that I think the big issue is the public doesn't seem to value live performances as much as they once did, maybe 20 years ago. I blame part of that on the increased drinking age (for bars), and a lot of it on a myriad of other entertainment options, from the internet to better home theater systems to gaming consoles, etc.
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Re: Frequency's back room

Postby Average Joe » Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:46 pm

So this little zippy bitch is whining that he's being exploited by not being paid enough to play in a bar? Last I checked, musicians seek out bars and clubs to play in, no one forces musicians to play. If Little Zippy Fauntleroy feels he is being exploited it is up to him to empower himself to walk away, and never ever play in those low paying clubs again. That'll show 'em.
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Re: Frequency's back room

Postby zippy » Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:52 pm

Well its funny i have not fallen to the level of insult "numbnuts" ect that others in this thread have and i suspect for some of you "whiny" is what ever somebody says that refuses to see the brillance of your position. However I for one would love to see other musicians join in and get there views. How about people what do you think?
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Re: Frequency's back room

Postby zippy » Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:55 pm

chainsawcurtis wrote:I don't know if the Frequency has cocktail servers (people who troll ((in a good way)) tables and take orders for drinks) but I'm fairly certain they have bartenders. Having said that it's been my experience (as a manager, club owner etc), that bartenders make at the very least minimum wage. And yes, wait staff at a restaurant or diner is generally paid much lower and expected to make up the taxes of their wage up to the minimum. On paper a table server makes the minimum wage but a good one in a busy restaurant can do much better. Of course the work can be grueling. I've known more than one waiter who was making upwards of $500 a week (in 1987 dollars). They were smart enough to claim a fair amount of it on their Schedule C to show they could handle mortgages, credit lines and such.

I've been holding off on commenting about the thread topic because except for the back and forth personal banter I agree with a lot of what's been said on both sides plus I haven't been to the Frequency yet. It's also been my experience that clubs with a "music room" don't take in enough money to give bands a guarantee if they aren't taking money at the front door. It seems like if you are going to have a music room as opposed to just another bar your clientele would be used to that.

Musicians need to get paid better if they are playing what the public wants to hear when they're out in a bar drinking, trying to socialize, dance, whatever - cover bands, let's say. But if your in a "hobby band" and you want to play your original stuff, more power to you. A place like the Frequency is different than the Badger Bowl in that people who go to the Frequency may have a more discerning ear for music that's not Mustang Sally, U2, or whoever's popular on the radio now (I'm way behind on my radio listening).

I'd love to put together a set of my original material and play someplace in Madison but the guys I work with regularly are used to getting $100 a man to do a gig - a three set, three hour gig in a tavern somewhere. Hell, I can't get guys to walk out the door with their gear for less than that, nor do I ask them to very often. But then again, it's not really a hobby for me as much as an avocation. Something that literally puts groceries on the table.

A thought about the local "hobby bands" though may be that it's time to put only two bands on the bill in a night, play longer sets, work on getting more folks through the door and encouraging the two band's street teams to work together better. Maybe if they need more material they could do some of their other hobby band friend's stuff (I occasionally play material my friends write). Does that make any sense?

And I'd like to say that musicians should all get along but right now I'm struggling with the fact that there are so many folks that have lost their jobs some of them are putting the old band back together and taking work away from the guys who try to make a shitty living at it. "Come on Mr. Bar Owner. We're getting "The Schmontzes" back together. We'll pack your place with our friends and we'll play for $200 and a case of beer." Bastards.



Thanks for the thoughtful reply. It seems many on here are incapable of this. Sad really.......
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Re: Frequency's back room

Postby SirK » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:06 am

zippy wrote:
chainsawcurtis wrote:I'd love to put together a set of my original material and play someplace in Madison but the guys I work with regularly are used to getting $100 a man to do a gig - a three set, three hour gig in a tavern somewhere. Hell, I can't get guys to walk out the door with their gear for less than that, nor do I ask them to very often. But then again, it's not really a hobby for me as much as an avocation. Something that literally puts groceries on the table.

A thought about the local "hobby bands" though may be that it's time to put only two bands on the bill in a night, play longer sets, work on getting more folks through the door and encouraging the two band's street teams to work together better. Maybe if they need more material they could do some of their other hobby band friend's stuff (I occasionally play material my friends write). Does that make any sense?



Thanks for the thoughtful reply. It seems many on here are incapable of this. Sad really.......


Actually, that's not a very thoughtful reply at all. He basically reduces non-cover bands to "hobby band". Yeah, we all know the money is in cover bands, yay for them! Local original artists don't pull $100 per-member, per-night every night as a local band but that in no way reflects on their art. Yes, art is important to some, shocker! I prefer Madison original artists 4,000 times more than hearing a cover band and that includes some of the great ones in town. That's why I go see them, but does everyone in town go see the great local bands? No, people don't go out as much, they are doing other things, they aren't all interested in live music, etc... Zippy, stop picking fights with people, answer a few questions and STFU if you don't have any answers. This was funny at first, but now I long for Zloduska... I thought this thread was from 1995 from the talk of the dying music scene and lack of pay for musicians, tell us something we didn't know years ago. This isn't enlightening at all... What next? Are load-in times unrealistic? The original thread was about the venue, this is now a fist fight that has turned silly. The Frequency is a great mid-sized venue run by good folks who care about music. Not only do I think the back room pay thing works great, but I also love the layout of the back room and the stage set-up. The pay isn't like Wilco gets on tour, we get that. Is it their fault (or any club owners)? No. It's economics, so put away the whole high school freshman marxist BS you are pushing and drop it. It's old. Unless you have solutions or constructive things to say beyond "gee", "golly", "that sucks for artists"... I actually enjoyed hearing from Talagaster, but I'm sure you were annoyed by another idiot worshiping at the throne of those brutal club owner bourgeois overlords, whatever. If you can't answer others questions and engage in a conversation, then stop asking your own, unless you are only a troll... Then by all means, keep pissing everyone off!
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