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Musicians eat it again for the Brats..

Who's making noise in and around Madison? What's new in the business of making music around town? Review shows and CDs here. Please keep all hype in Hype Exchange.

Re: Musicians eat it again for the Brats..

Postby zippy » Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:33 pm

wack wack wrote:Oh zippy, I've actually become quite fond of you through all this.

zippy wrote:SO GREATNESS SHOULD COME FOR FREE HUH?
GEE THATS NOT THE STANDARD THE CAPITALIST SYSTEM PUTS FORTH . THE VERY SAME SYSTEM THAT SEEMS TO APPLY TO ALL GROUPS EXCEPT "ARTISTS" NO THEY SHOULD JUST BE HAPPY LITTLE BUSY ARTIST BEES MAKING ART FOR ALL YOU LOVELY PEOPLE BECAUSE WELL YOUR SO VERY SPECIAL!


if Capitalism can remove its ugly head from its own ass long enough to blow me, it's welcome to. Truth is that many other fields in our society, like law and medicine, should NOT be subject to capitalistic tendencies. Apparently I missed the foot-notes in the Declaration: Life (long as you can afford a doctor), Liberty (long as you can afford a lawyer), the Pursuit of Happiness (long as you're not interfering with someone else's desire to commoditize that which makes you happy).

(Zippy sez-) Wow we agree on something now thats progress.

zippy wrote:THOSE ARTISTS HAVE OTHER JOBS ,OTHER WAYS TO SURVIVE.IF A LAWYER WAS WEALTHY FROM AN INHERITANCE AND PRACTICED LAW FOR THE HELL OF IT NOBODY WOULD EXPECT ALL LAWYERS TO PRACTICE FOR LITTLE OR NO MONEY.EXCEPT FOR MAYBE YOU BECAUSE YOU DO NOT THINK LOGICALLY.


You can get another job too. The implication that non-pro musicians are all inheritance babies who are just fucking around is so stupid I can't believe even you would be so silly. I've played and studied music daily since I was twelve years old. You'd be hard-pressed to find a gig that I can't handle ability-wise. I'm not unusual among non-pros. I'm not even among the best of the non-pros.

(Zippy sez-) I never said all non professional musicians are inheritance babies. Nice straw dog you got there. My point is not that non professionals cannot create wonderful music but that when they do its WORTH something. If they Give it away it hurts professional musicians because it drives down the price of good music.

As far as I'm concerned, non-pro musicians who take the "art" aspect seriously deserve far more credit and respect than non-artistic "pros." Creation is far more valuable than execution. The greatest irony in this whole thread is that I suspect those who are considering themselves "professional musicians" are of the cover band sort... the exact people that I consider to be not musicians at all. Any jackass monkey can copy stuff, big deal. Come up with something ORIGINAL that people will pay for, or your opinion is worth even less than mine.

Maybe bold caps will help:

IT DOES NOT REQUIRE A PROFESSIONAL MUSICIAN TO PLAY PROFESSIONAL-QUALITY MUSIC. ADVANCED MUSICAL ABILITY IS NOT THAT SPECIAL, NOT THAT HARD TO ACHIEVE.

(Zippy sez)Thats why you have played and studied music every day since you were twelve years old. Because advanced musical ability is not that hard to achieve? Creation has to be good enough to create the desired result.The amount of technique to accomplish this depends on the amount needed to get across what your trying to do. And you must be a young one cause you still think there is such a thing as something original. Original is often just a word for stolen from an obscure source!



MUSIC IS NOT PRECIOUS, COMPLICATED, LIMITED KNOWLEDGE; IT IS NOT LAW OR MEDICINE AND SHOULD NOT BE VALUED THE SAME. TO BELIEVE THAT A PRO MUSICIAN DESERVES THE SAME RESPECT IS ABSOLUTELY OVERVALUING MUSICAL ABILITY.


( Zipp sez)We part company here.Music certainly deserves as much respect as any profession. And I do not agree that just because anyone can play music anyone can do it well. That is like saying it takes no special ability to play baseball so everyone can play professionally who does it part time or if they play on city recreation teams . It is certainly a skill that increases that allows you to more fully express your creativity.

I promise you, there is not a professional musician alive who loves and knows and spends time with music any more than I do. There's not a one alive who is going to tell me when and where I can or can't play. NO ONE has any more right to music than I do, in any way, in any form.
(Zippysez)
No one is saying that. Just stop giving it away all the time. I suspect you are most likely a very good player, Value that.

Again, want exclusivity? Do something that really matters. Become a nurse, that's the most guaranteed job in America right now.

(Zippy sez)
Actually nurses are being laid off in many markets. It depends where you live.
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Re: Musicians eat it again for the Brats..

Postby Kenneth Burns » Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:40 pm

There's something I'm still not getting. If a band doesn't like the terms of a gig, they don't have to take the gig. Right? So what's this argument about again?
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Re: Musicians eat it again for the Brats..

Postby zippy » Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:50 pm

This is the argument thread. You obviously have it mistaken for the dispute thread! :roll:
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Re: Musicians eat it again for the Brats..

Postby Kenneth Burns » Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:12 am

I always like playing a charity gig because it means not having to wait around at the end of the night to get paid.
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Re: Musicians eat it again for the Brats..

Postby acereraser » Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:07 pm

Kenneth Burns wrote:I always like playing a charity gig because it means not having to wait around at the end of the night to get paid.


Yeah, from what I can tell, this thread is about the double-bummer of donating your time at a charity gig, and still feeling cheated.
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Re: Musicians eat it again for the Brats..

Postby rrnate » Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:55 pm

It's also kind of a dumb pissing match. (A lot of this is boiling down to "I'm a real musician and you're not" kind of talk.) Zippy may or may not be a musician, but as a Forum user, he is definitely annoying.

Bitching about charity gigs isn't really the same thing as "getting musicians to value themselves".
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Re: Musicians eat it again for the Brats..

Postby zippy » Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:04 pm

Its called reading and understanding what you read.
This thread was about the fact for most charity events in town everybody is getting paid EXCEPT for the musicians. Why you are so concerned about me bitching about not getting paid when every one else at the charity event IS getting paid Illustrates exactly what I am talking about. Not one of you has expressed the least bit of outrage that only the musicians actually do anything for free at the events. Does the Isthmus DONATE add space Ken? Do you write free ad copy and press releases for the events? WHY THE HELL NOT?
If its such a good charity why are you people not greedy @ssholes for not donating ad space and time? The fact is these events are money raising events for the charity and the people who work them and advertise them. Even if you are a nonprofit it is perfectly ok to pay yourself a decent wage to do the organizing work. And as i talked about already bar tenders, beer venders ,advertisers, owners of the space, sound crew, lighting crew, ect are almost always getting Paid!
But for this to work it requires the musicians bite it so that they make the required percentage for the charity. Yes no one HAS to take these gigs but the fact that most of the time they are put on on the backs of musicians is something that needs to be brought up.
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Re: Musicians eat it again for the Brats..

Postby Peanutbutter » Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:59 pm

The professional musicians who played at Brat Fest did get paid. The hobby bands are the only ones who were asked to donate their time.
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Re: Musicians eat it again for the Brats..

Postby Mr. Williams » Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:10 pm

Wow, this thread is still going.
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Re: Musicians eat it again for the Brats..

Postby Ducatista » Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:10 pm

zippy wrote:This thread was about the fact for most charity events in town everybody is getting paid EXCEPT for the musicians. Why you are so concerned about me bitching about not getting paid when every one else at the charity event IS getting paid Illustrates exactly what I am talking about. Not one of you has expressed the least bit of outrage that only the musicians actually do anything for free at the events. Does the Isthmus DONATE add space Ken? Do you write free ad copy and press releases for the events? WHY THE HELL NOT?

Oh, settle down, zippy. Musicians aren't alone in this one. Graphic designers (even those who make a living at it) often donate their services to charity events. I suppose it's because the artistic process (whether designing or performing) carries its own intrinsic reward.

Ticket taking, maybe not so much.
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Re: Musicians eat it again for the Brats..

Postby rrnate » Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:51 pm

I've been trying to devalue the process of dishing up brats by having people over for grill-outs at my house and not charging them - fortunately, I'm under Zippy's radar (for now).
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Re: Musicians eat it again for the Brats..

Postby zippy » Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:16 am

Mr. Williams wrote:Wow, this thread is still going.

Wow your still reading it? :roll:
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Re: Musicians eat it again for the Brats..

Postby zippy » Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:17 am

Peanutbutter wrote:The professional musicians who played at Brat Fest did get paid. The hobby bands are the only ones who were asked to donate their time.

Just not true only a few of the professionals in the some of the cover bands were paid.
NEXT!
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Re: Musicians eat it again for the Brats..

Postby zippy » Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:20 am

Ducatista wrote:
zippy wrote:This thread was about the fact for most charity events in town everybody is getting paid EXCEPT for the musicians. Why you are so concerned about me bitching about not getting paid when every one else at the charity event IS getting paid Illustrates exactly what I am talking about. Not one of you has expressed the least bit of outrage that only the musicians actually do anything for free at the events. Does the Isthmus DONATE add space Ken? Do you write free ad copy and press releases for the events? WHY THE HELL NOT?

Oh, settle down, zippy. Musicians aren't alone in this one. Graphic designers (even those who make a living at it) often donate their services to charity events. I suppose it's because the artistic process (whether designing or performing) carries its own intrinsic reward.

Ticket taking, maybe not so much.


All work has its own intrinsic reward its just a matter of if its a reward you find rewarding or not.
And anyway should the fact you might find the work rewarding negate its economic value?
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Re: Musicians eat it again for the Brats..

Postby zippy » Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:23 am

rrnate wrote:I've been trying to devalue the process of dishing up brats by having people over for grill-outs at my house and not charging them - fortunately, I'm under Zippy's radar (for now).

Actually can you see how many ways your analogy is off?
Come on use that brain. I think you can I think you can! :lol:
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