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"Brown Sugar" needs to be banned!

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Re: "Brown Sugar" needs to be banned!

Postby Huckleby » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:02 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote: Huck keeps saying that anyone who dislikes a genre is somehow faulty. In fact, he just did it again.
Huckleby wrote:I'm not giving up on improving Professor Wagstaff


I am teasing you, as I've been doing all along. You may be insulted, but that's not my intent.

I'm saying that it is in human nature to be circumcised, I mean circumscribed, or "faulty" as you put it.
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Re: "Brown Sugar" needs to be banned!

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:07 pm

Huckleby wrote:I'm not criticizing your tastes. Just asking you to recognize that they are subjective.
That's not at all what you've been doing. My entire argument has been that all musical taste is subjective. You've been saying exactly the opposite for pages now.

Huckleby wrote:I am teasing you, as I've been doing all along.
Uh-huh. I think it's much more likely you're saying this now because your idiotic position turned out to be indefensible.
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Re: "Brown Sugar" needs to be banned!

Postby rabble » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:25 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:
Huckleby wrote:I am teasing you, as I've been doing all along.
Uh-huh. I think it's much more likely you're saying this now because your idiotic position turned out to be indefensible.

I feel I must revise my original postulation and admit that Huck might have bitten off more than he can chew.
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Re: "Brown Sugar" needs to be banned!

Postby Huckleby » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:28 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote: My entire argument has been that all musical taste is subjective. You've been saying exactly the opposite for pages now.


The opposite case would be that there is an objective truth about what constitutes good or bad music.

You are the one who declared Neil Diamond to be "bad music."
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Re: "Brown Sugar" needs to be banned!

Postby Huckleby » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:31 pm

rabble wrote: I feel I must revise my original postulation and admit that Huck might have bitten off more than he can chew.


I would say that your argument that good and bad music can be objectively defined has lost the day.

Mitch Miller is better than Lawrence Welk only in your mind.
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Re: "Brown Sugar" needs to be banned!

Postby rabble » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:40 pm

Huckleby wrote:
rabble wrote: I feel I must revise my original postulation and admit that Huck might have bitten off more than he can chew.


I would say that your argument that good and bad music can be objectively defined has lost the day.

Mitch Miller is better than Lawrence Welk only in your mind.

Damn. Nobody ever explained it to me that clearly before.

Maybe you didn't bite off more than you could chew.
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Re: "Brown Sugar" needs to be banned!

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:41 pm

Huckleby wrote:The opposite case would be that there is an objective truth about what constitutes good or bad music.
Which is exactly the argument you're making when you say disliking popular music makes you wrong and indicates you are "broken" (yep, I can't enough of throwing that stupidity back in your face), or that if something is on the Rolling Stone list, it is automatically good.
Huckleby wrote:You are the one who declared Neil Diamond to be "bad music."
I did? I'm not going to dig through this whole thread to check, but I'm pretty sure all I said was that he does not rock (a statement I see no reason to back down from) and that I don't like him. But even if I had said his music was bad, that would obviously be just my opinion, which makes me wonder: are you one of those jackasses who needs people to append "in my opinion" to any statement which is already obviously an opinion?

So, looking back, it would appear that you've been arguing with a strawman and you still lost. Pretty hilarious. That's just my opinion, of course.
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Re: "Brown Sugar" needs to be banned!

Postby Huckleby » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:55 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:
Huckleby wrote:The opposite case would be that there is an objective truth about what constitutes good or bad music.
Which is exactly the argument you're making when you say disliking popular music makes you wrong and indicates you are "broken" (yep, I can't enough of throwing that stupidity back in your face)


The broken remark was facetious, I already explained that to you, but you persist in your wounded state. You have little sense of humor, especially about yourself.

I've told you exactly what I meant. And you keep coming back with a different meaning, and persist in arguing against a strawman.

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:, or that if something is on the Rolling Stone list, it is automatically good.


Anything on the RS list has musical value. In that sense it is "good." If you can't appreciate the musical value, that is your limitation.
Last edited by Huckleby on Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Brown Sugar" needs to be banned!

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:21 pm

Huckleby wrote:I've told you exactly what I meant. And you keep coming back with a different meaning, and persist in arguing against a strawman.
Cute. "I'm not arguing with a strawman, you are!" If that's your position, then you'd better meet me by the flag pole after school.

I keep asking you to rephrase but you just keep saying exactly the same thing you did the first time, which is that anyone who dislikes music with enduring popularity is somehow faulty. If that's not what you mean, then stop saying it and say something else. Something less obviously stupid would be nice.

Huckleby wrote:Anything on the RS list has musical value. In that sense it is "good."
Any noise ever made anywhere by anyone has musical value to somebody. I have no idea what good or bad has to do with it. You insinuated that Neil Diamond's inclusion on the RS list meant that I was wrong for disliking him, which is ridiculous. Since I've never denied that Diamond has talent and obviously I am aware that other people like him, your statement above is simply insipid.
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Re: "Brown Sugar" needs to be banned!

Postby Stebben84 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:26 pm

Whoever put together that list together gave it value. That value is not necissarily intrinsic.
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Re: "Brown Sugar" needs to be banned!

Postby Huckleby » Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:34 pm

Stebben84 wrote:Whoever put together that list together gave it value. That value is not necissarily intrinsic.


I say if you have a panel of people with a lot of listening experience selecting the best music of all time (to their ears), there is intrinsic value in the music on the list, by definition. The music was able to reach people effectively. Communication is the most important standard.
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Re: "Brown Sugar" needs to be banned!

Postby Stebben84 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:42 pm

Except another panel of experts may take away some albums or add some. What's intrinsic about that. This debate is as silly as defining art.
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Re: "Brown Sugar" needs to be banned!

Postby rabble » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:37 pm

Stebben84 wrote:Except another panel of experts may take away some albums or add some. What's intrinsic about that. This debate is as silly as defining art.

No it isn't. This stuff matters.
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Re: "Brown Sugar" needs to be banned!

Postby Huckleby » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:54 pm

Stebben84 wrote:Except another panel of experts may take away some albums or add some. What's intrinsic about that.


That panel would simply contribute more examples of music with intrinsic value.

Look, I cast a very wide net of "intrinsic value." It's not a theory that I dreamed up, it's a reflection of my own life experience. I have respect for music that other people like, I so often have come around to getting something I may have rejected earlier.
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Re: "Brown Sugar" needs to be banned!

Postby Westsidegal » Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:13 pm

Thank you Ms. Swimmer. Your shared memories were fascinating.
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