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Att: Alternativevoice

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Re: Don't PETA on my leg & tell me its raining

Postby white_rabbit » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:33 pm

Mean Scenester wrote:
Marvell wrote:
Mean Scenester wrote:Could we find the internet equivalent of a cure for crabs and get rid of this nit once and for all?


And by 'crabs' you, of course, mean 'pants hampsters.'

I prefer the term "underbunnies."


Crotch kittens.
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Re: Att: Alternativevoice

Postby fisticuffs » Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:10 am

AV, I respect and appreciate your lengthy response to my direct question. It makes your point far more valid than what you had written several times in the comments section of the article. Those comments had very little substance and very sharp teeth. While you have ever right to read so deeply into this article I do have to say your arguments are and insights seemed to be based mostly on your partisan view of the world and not on the intent or direct words of the article. What you read into this is very different from what I read simply because we have different preconceptions and ideologies. Your entitled to your views and now that you have laid them out so eloquently I can see where those views come from. I do however disagree with you entirely. I'm also done talking about the issue. My advice. Take your post and use your real name (not your "real" name) and you might actually accomplish something for the larger audience.
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Re: Att: Alternativevoice

Postby supaunknown » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:57 pm

AlternativeVoice wrote:"But no place in Gaza was safe from the F-16s, the drones, the mortar and tank shells, the white phosphorous, the mysterious weapon doctors say burns worse than napalm, or the one that explodes with such extreme force that flesh is literally ripped from bone."

A number of lies and falsehoods here. For one thing, there are plenty of safe places. Away from the weapons.

I guess we'd have to agree to quantify "plenty".
Have you experienced living in Gaza firsthand?

AlternativeVoice wrote:Israel ONLY fires at locations with weapons, or at locations where high-level Hamas officials are. And even in those cases, they will withhold fire if they view the collateral damage as too much.

I'm cautiously optimistic that Israel tries to avoid most civilian casualties, but it also seems like they're quite willing to forgo that if the target is desirable enough. Hamas has shown they're desperate enough to pull just about any despicable act. Every time one side commits an aggression the other responds in kind. So really, is there any end in sight for this conflict? There have been so many dirty deeds done upon each other for so long that fear, distrust, and hate are now part of their very fiber of existence. Is either side "right" at this point?

AlternativeVoice wrote:And even in those cases, they will withhold fire if they view the collateral damage as too much. There are limits, of course. One example is that Hamas leadership generally spend every moment of every day with their wife (or wives) and children at their side. They want to make sure that if they die that their wife and kids go with them so Hamas can tell the western media how many children Israel murdered. Any sane man would put those deaths on the Hamas leaders who kept their children at hand.

No. The responsibilty falls on the side that pulls the trigger.

I hold no illusions that this conflict will ever end. There have been far too many unforgiveable acts for this to be resolved with mutual satisfaction. Neither side seems willing to compromise. Israel moved back in and their military advantage allows them to push the Palestinians around. And Hamas' resolve never seems to waver. Go figure.

AlternativeVoice wrote:But the western media is not sane when it comes to smearing Israel.

The western media smearing Israel? News to me. After recent mutual aggressions, didn't Israel enact a news blockade that prevented press from crossing the fence to get the other side of the story?

AlternativeVoice wrote:And if that border really was "sealed tight by Egypt" then we wouldn't have this problem. That's the only place that Hamas gets their weapons from.

Then you don't grasp the concept of supply & demand.

AlternativeVoice wrote:You get the point. Every line in this article is a lie. The whole thing is basically a love letter to Hamas. Obviously the western media will always be extremely anti-Israel in its coverage, and that's to be expected. We can't expect anti-semitism to just go away when it's been around for so long. But this is one of the more pathetic things I've ever seen. Even Al Jazeera isn't this blatant...

Maybe 'cuz I live so far away from it I don't feel like I'm qualified to lay judgement on who's right and who's wrong in this perverted holy war. However, I have concluded that you're a partison nutjob.
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Re: Att: Alternativevoice

Postby AlternativeVoice » Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:39 pm

supaunknown wrote:

I guess we'd have to agree to quantify "plenty".
Have you experienced living in Gaza firsthand?

I'm cautiously optimistic that Israel tries to avoid most civilian casualties, but it also seems like they're quite willing to forgo that if the target is desirable enough. Hamas has shown they're desperate enough to pull just about any despicable act. Every time one side commits an aggression the other responds in kind. So really, is there any end in sight for this conflict? There have been so many dirty deeds done upon each other for so long that fear, distrust, and hate are now part of their very fiber of existence. Is either side "right" at this point?


No. The responsibilty falls on the side that pulls the trigger.

I hold no illusions that this conflict will ever end. There have been far too many unforgiveable acts for this to be resolved with mutual satisfaction. Neither side seems willing to compromise. Israel moved back in and their military advantage allows them to push the Palestinians around. And Hamas' resolve never seems to waver. Go figure.


The western media smearing Israel? News to me. After recent mutual aggressions, didn't Israel enact a news blockade that prevented press from crossing the fence to get the other side of the story?


Then you don't grasp the concept of supply & demand.


Maybe 'cuz I live so far away from it I don't feel like I'm qualified to lay judgement on who's right and who's wrong in this perverted holy war. However, I have concluded that you're a partison nutjob.



I haven't lived in Gaza, but I have visited. And yes, there is an end to the conflict, which is to isolate Hamas. Their approval has gone to near zero in Gaza, as the citizens are near revolution against that regime. They want Fatah back. Remember, one side here will (Israel) will give up basically anything for peace. They constantly hand out hundreds of terrorist prisoners, as well as large swaths of land, unilaterally as peace gestures. They are THAT desperate for peace. Hamas always responds by bombing some more.


Now, to even pretend that the worldwide media is only SLIGHTLY biased against Israel is preposterous. Are you familiar with the daily propaganda videos that get published on networks from BBC to CNN? How the media publishes Hamas propaganda without question? The daily Fauxtogates? It's become farcical. Israel has mostly blockaded journalists from going into Gaza for their own safety.

Remember, journalists in Israel are free to publish whatever they want. It's a very liberal country (more liberal than the United States). In Gaza, you have to publish what Hamas wants or they murder you. Some journalists are actually honest enough to point this out. A few came back from Lebanon after the 2006 conflict and admitted that Hezbollah thugs came up to them when they came into the country and made it clear that they knew who they were, who they worked for, and where they were staying. You think you're going to publish stories of rocket launchers in schoolyards and mosques after that kind of threat? I know I wouldn't.

Now, as for this "the responsibility falls on the side that pulls the trigger"... that's preposterous. Hamas terrorists often hold little children in front of them as they fire on Israeli troops, because they KNOW that the western media will eat up any story of those evil Israeli troops killing a child in cold blood. Israeli troops do their best to never fire on anybody who is holding a child, but children are sometimes killed by bombs.... there is no way to NOT occasionally kill an innocent. Israel uses extremely small, laser-guided smart bombs to have as little collateral damage as possible... but there are limits to how good anybody can be. That's what happens in war. It's been completely accepted in every war in history... except when Jews are involved. Because Jews have to be judged by a different standard (i.e. everything that Jews do is wrong because Jews are evil Nazis).


I am actually a moderate on this. I strongly oppose the right wing in Israel, and the settlements. I think all of the settlements should be disbanded. That actually puts me left-of-center on this issue. The problem is that Madison is REALLY far to the left, and the far left wing in the US and western Europe has decided to ally itself with far ring wing terrorist groups. So anybody who dares to not single-mindedly hate Israel is a "wingnut whackjob."

I'm sorry, but if you find any sort of moral equilibrium between one of the most peaceful and liberal nations in the world and the most vicious terrorist group on the planet.... you need to look at yourself in the mirror and seriously re-evaluate your life and your beliefs.
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Re: Att: Alternativevoice

Postby supaunknown » Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:01 pm

AlternativeVoice wrote:Israeli troops do their best to never fire on anybody who is holding a child, but children are sometimes killed by bombs.... there is no way to NOT occasionally kill an innocent.

Scary. Why not just stop the bombing and have a "love in"? Of course with a drum circle!

AlternativeVoice wrote:Israel uses extremely small, laser-guided smart bombs to have as little collateral damage as possible... but there are limits to how good anybody can be. That's what happens in war. It's been completely accepted in every war in history... except when Jews are involved. Because Jews have to be judged by a different standard (i.e. everything that Jews do is wrong because Jews are evil Nazis).

A conspirado, eh? Well there you go. That theory explains everything. :shock:

AlternativeVoice wrote:If you find any sort of moral equilibrium between one of the most peaceful and liberal nations in the world and the most vicious terrorist group on the planet.... you need to look at yourself in the mirror and seriously re-evaluate your life and your beliefs.

Hmm, I guess I don't know enough about the situation to pick a side. Both opponents seem to play dirty pool -
Israel proclaims to desire peace yet the numbers show that they kill more people than their side loses. They also keep a stranglehold on the precious water supply. Nobody likes a bully.
Hamas is a hateful, stubborn, dangerous organization that is preventing the Palestinian people from moving forward and being recognized as honorable, safe, and trustworthy.
The furthest east I've been was Ohio, so my opinion of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is based on whatever limited information that eventually gets filtered down my way. What happens over there doesn't seem to affect my day-to-day life very much (gas prices?). Basically, my opinion on this matters very little. Sorry to anyone who wasted their time reading this.
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Re: Att: Alternativevoice

Postby AlternativeVoice » Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:47 pm

supaunknown wrote: Both opponents seem to play dirty pool -
Israel proclaims to desire peace yet the numbers show that they kill more people than their side loses.



I wanted to pick out this quote because this is another one of those pieces of propaganda that is baffling to me. I mean, this isn't an insult, I have some very smart friends who have fallen for this one too. The media invented this concept of "disproportional war" because they needed a new angle to attack Israel from. All you have to do is think about what you're saying:

In Afghanistan, our troops kill more than 10 al qaeda members for every US soldier lost. Is this a problem? Would you prefer that more US troops die? Would you prefer that more al qaeda terrorists continue terrorizing the world? Of course not. We have better weapons, so we are going to kill more. If al qaeda had a bomb they could release that would instantly murder 1 million Americans, they'd detonate it. But they don't have such a weapon.


Well, the same thing is going on in Gaza, which is another place that a liberal democratic nation is fighting a terrorist insurgency. Hamas simply has terrible weapons (Egypt does that make it easy for Iran to smuggle their weapons, unlike Syria). If Israel kills ten terrorists, do they then need to sit on their hands until ten of their own citizens die before they can fire another bullet? Think about how silly that theory is.


No nation in the history of the world has shown as much restraint as Israel has in this war. They have dropped thousands of bombs and sent tens of thousands of troops into a war zone, and yet have killed less than 1000 people... think about how remarkable that is. They could have killed 1 million if they wanted to. Even with the most modern weaponry, killing so few requires a lot of discretion. This is why Israel sends in troops on foot. They intentionally put their own soldiers in harms way when they could just be bombing the hell out of Gaza, and the reason is to try to save Palestinian lives. They know that every single dead Gazan will be paraded around the country and posed for every single AP and Reuters photographer within a 100 mile radius, so even if they didn't care about them (they do, of course, it's heartbreaking to see innocents die) it would still make sense politically.


Again, Israel has CONSISTENTLY given up land and prisoners just as a gesture of good will. They released over 400 terrorists just about a year ago. They withdrew from lands near Gaza a few years ago. It is the official state policy of Israel to fight for a two state solution, where Palestinians can have their own nation. But Hamas won't accept it. They won't accept any world where Jews exist. Have you even read the Hamas Charter? It states explicitly that all Jews must be destroyed, and that Israel cannot exist.


What else could Israel possibly do?? Answer that! How much more discretion can they possibly show?? They allowed a terrorist group to bomb them DAILY for more than a year and did nothing. What other nation would ever do that? What more can Israel do?
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Re: Att: Alternativevoice

Postby white_rabbit » Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:01 pm

Image

La voz alternativa es un puta loco.
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Re: Att: Alternativevoice

Postby AlternativeVoice » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:31 pm

You are as obsessed with me as harrisimo and fisticuffs. The three of you just go on every single thread where I post and, despite the fact that I never talk to you and do not know you, you feel the incessant need to launch immature personal attacks and threats at me.

It's one thing to be one of those childish trolls on an internet message board, but to be so obsessed as to stalk another poster and lambast them every time they say anything.... that's really a new low.

Oh, and feel free to respond to my posts with more of those middle finger pictures. Those are very classy.... and no less mature than any of your other crap.


I don't care if you respond to this with a personal attack (since I'm certain that you will). I won't respond back. You have been exposed for the obsessive stalker that you are. If you want to have an adult debate on the topic at hand, then I'd love to debate you. If you want to apologize for your behavior then I'll accept it. But I'm not stooping to your level and engaging in a childish pissing match.
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