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Can we make it stop?

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Re: Can we make it stop?

Postby butters » Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:52 am

Stebben84 wrote:Free speech doesn't include yelling "fire" in a crowded room. That's what I consider this to be. Yea, you can say anything you want and we can let it go on here, but then it would be a clusterfuck. Do you really want a 4chan thing going on here. Should I be able to start threads talking about goat fucking or something. Blaska was being a blowhard. That's why I commented about it. Don't get all righteous on me.

Calling "fire" in a crowded room is dangerous. Dumdum posting on a forum is not.

Sure. Start up a thread about goat fucking. What's the big deal?
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Re: Can we make it stop?

Postby mrak » Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:12 am

snoqueen wrote:I've been around the internet a long time, and unmoderated forums -- those where nobody gets banned or control is decentralized -- eventually fall apart. The signal to noise ratio gets so far out of whack it's not worth the trouble wading through the crap, and the interesting posters all move on.

It's happening here, and TDPF management doesn't seem to notice, or care much.

Perhaps they're viewing heavy troll (and troll-feeding) traffic as preferable to lighter, but more substantive traffic. But I doubt that will pay off well in the longer term.
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Re: Can we make it stop?

Postby butters » Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:36 am

Uncle_Leaver wrote:This sounds to me like you logged in under the wrong sock puppet account.

I don't understand why you keep insisting that i'm somebody else. I only have one username on this forum.

Uncle_Leaver wrote:You're a fucking moron if you think banning from an Internet forum is a violation of one's right to free speech. Wait ... scratch that ... you're a fucking moron regardless.

So you're saying that banning someone and cutting off their speech doesn't limit their free speech? That doesn't make any sense.

It's funny to see you of all people are in favor of banning, considering your only contribution to any discussion is to call people names and ridicule others--never any substance. Maybe you think it makes you sound cool or smart, but really it sounds like a waste of an education.
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Re: Can we make it stop?

Postby NDN » Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:55 am

butters wrote:
Stebben84 wrote:This is about someone who trolls around trying to pick fights without the intent of debating or "free speech."

This sentence doesn't make sense. Agreed, trolls try to pick fights without the intent of debating. But they don't pick fights without the intent of "free speech". They do so because of it. We should have the skills to deal with it without resorting to banning people...That is if we think we are as smart as we think we are.


i you were invited to give a speech to a group of people, and one person just yelled "douche nozzle!" over and over again, would it be ok to escort that person out.

if a group of people decide to use FREE SPEECH to organize and ignore a specific person (not all people with a certain view point) and not ban the specific person....well that is not a violation of anyone's rights.

your arguments of free speech and constitutional rights are idiotic in this thread.

that being said, i don't mind his posts. it gives me insight as to what the far right is spewing, and when i have asked him questions, or commented on one of his posts, he responded like a person with a strong opinion, not as a troll.

free speech?!?!?! that is so fucking stupid that it sounds like a trolll move
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Re: Can we make it stop?

Postby butters » Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:20 am

NDN wrote:i you were invited to give a speech to a group of people, and one person just yelled "douche nozzle!" over and over again, would it be ok to escort that person out.

But that is not what's going on here. You said it yourself:
NDN wrote:that being said, i don't mind his posts. it gives me insight as to what the far right is spewing, and when i have asked him questions, or commented on one of his posts, he responded like a person with a strong opinion, not as a troll.

NDN wrote:your arguments of free speech and constitutional rights are idiotic in this thread...free speech?!?!?! that is so fucking stupid that it sounds like a trolll move

Who said anything about the Constitution? In this case, it sounds like people want someone banned for voicing a point of view that they don't agree with. I am arguing against that. Why is the idea of "free speech" on a forum so fucking stupid?
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Re: Can we make it stop?

Postby NDN » Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:51 am

butters -

i said that he did not annoy me, but others here interpret his posts as mindless trolling, like screaming nonsense during a speech. i am not just forcing my thoughts here, i am trying to read, comprehend, and respond.

my example of the dolt screaming nonsense during a speech is not how i see his posts, but how i feel other people here feel about him.

free speech. people are annoyed by his posts. he obviously tries to stir emotions with his refusal to call obama by name, consistently refer to his speeches as things he read off the teleprompter that other people wrote. even if we agree with a point, he repeats it over and over and over, and i would guess it is just to get a kneejerk reaction.

there are people who have asked him to be banned, that seems like an attack on free speech.

people speaking out against his posts by agreeing not to respond, as in 'don't feed the troll', is not an attack on free speech.

constitution - if you are in the USA, then you have a right to free speech as protected by the constitution.
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Re: Can we make it stop?

Postby Goober McTuber » Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:56 am

butters wrote:Sure. Start up a thread about goat fucking. What's the big deal?


This is the big deal.
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Re: Can we make it stop?

Postby mrak » Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:02 am

Do the various spams on the Forum that offer unlocked iPhones and DVD ripping software count as free speech?

Sure, the spammers are just seeking a profit, but the SCOTUS recently affirmed that commercial speech equals free speech.
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Re: Can we make it stop?

Postby fisticuffs » Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:15 am

Tiggs isn't presenting a point of view he's spewing the lies that are destroying this country. He's not here to have a conversation he's here to carpet bomb us with stanky shit. The iPod Spam is more valuable to the forum.
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Re: Can we make it stop?

Postby Ned Flanders » Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:19 am

fisticuffs wrote:Tiggs isn't presenting a point of view he's spewing the lies that are destroying this country. He's not here to have a conversation he's here to carpet bomb us with stanky shit. The iPod Spam is more valuable to the forum.

What sort of "lies" are destroying this country?
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Re: Can we make it stop?

Postby fisticuffs » Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:26 am

What sort of "lies" are destroying this country?


All the stupid shit you believe.
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Re: Can we make it stop?

Postby David Blaska » Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:29 am

Talon Newsman wrote:A liberal outlet like Isthmus would never in a million years publish a conservative like Blaska or, say, Vicki McKenna - online or in print.

Not if the likes of Fisticuffs or the Union Chair guy were running it. Fortunately, the people who actually do run Isthmus have a better understanding of the role of free speech and the unfettered exchange of ideas to a democracy. (As well as the growing conservative demographic.)
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Re: Can we make it stop?

Postby Dairylander » Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:02 am

Talon Newsman wrote:A liberal outlet like Isthmus would never in a million years publish a conservative like Blaska or, say, Vicki McKenna - online or in print.

Except for when they give her the cover story:
http://www.thedailypage.com/isthmus/art ... icle=27438
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Re: Can we make it stop?

Postby Uncle_Leaver » Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:13 am

butters wrote:So you're saying that banning someone and cutting off their speech doesn't limit their free speech?

Yes, that's what I'm saying, dolt. This is a web forum maintained by a private enterprise, not a public forum. Banning is not equivalent to locking someone away for shouting their opinion from a street corner. Isthmus can do whatever the hell it wants. If you write a letter to the editor and they refuse to print it have they likewise squelched your right to speak your opinion? No, they haven't. No difference.

It's funny to see you of all people are in favor of banning ...

I'm the one who said banning is unnecessary if people just stop responding to idiots like Tiggs. Your comprehension skills really suck, dude. No wonder you have no use for libraries.

My point is that banning isn't a Bill of Rights issue, nothing more. But I suspect you've never in your life read the Bill of Rights, so it's no surprise to me this distinction would be lost on you.

... considering your only contribution to any discussion is to call people names and ridicule others--never any substance.

Sez you. Over the years, I've contributed more substance to these pages than you'll muster in a lifetime of exercising your remedial cognitive powers. I don't need to defend myself to an inflexible debate flunky like you.

I ridicule those deserving of ridicule. Sorry if I've offended your delicate sensibilities. Oh wait ... no I'm not.
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Re: Can we make it stop?

Postby David Blaska » Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:54 am

If anyone should be "banned" it is Leaver for his foul language. However, his angry, inchoate sputterings -- reminiscent of a Tourette's sufferer in a snakepit -- does serve as a representative specimen of liberalism -- all emotion, no thought. Plus, I enjoy his misery.
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