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Blaska's Blog 2/23/10

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Re: Blaska's Blog 2/23/10

Postby HOMOsapien » Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:11 pm

News flash. Wisconsin's K-12 tax funded system is privatized by WEAC and the state department of publicly administered propaganda to young people.

*University of Phoenix
*Charter Schools
*Voucher programs
*Online Public education

All of these models succeed at providing high educational attainment standards while costing less than the WEAC status quo model. This isn't news to those who have been paying attention. The government unions and their state bureaucratic allies are scared stiff. Listen to their politics, utter and complete fear of change for the better. WEAC and the state department of publicly administered propaganda to young people don't want the public to know about the above listed success stories. In fact, WEAC routinely lobbies to limit access to these superior models.

The days of the government only model are drawing to a close. I here the leaking sound coming from the isthmus.
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Re: Blaska's Blog 2/23/10

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:11 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
ArturoBandini wrote:Why can't public schools reject problem students?

Because the state guarantees the right to a free public eduction.

See 118.13, Wisconsin state statutes.

I know that it's the law that keeps HS administrators from booting ne'redowells. Would you support repealing this law? Maybe subsidized high school education could be thought of as a privilege, rather than a right. Indeed, it's compulsory education for students - they can't legally leave the system even if they agree that it is not working for them (at least up to a certain age).
You may find it convenient to back up certain arguments by citing existing rules and regulations that bound the limits of possible policy choices. Another possible policy choice is to amend or rescind the rules and regulations.
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Re: Blaska's Blog 2/23/10

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:21 pm

ArturoBandini wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:
ArturoBandini wrote:Why can't public schools reject problem students?

Because the state guarantees the right to a free public eduction.

See 118.13, Wisconsin state statutes.

I know that it's the law that keeps HS administrators from booting ne'redowells. Would you support repealing this law? Maybe subsidized high school education could be thought of as a privilege, rather than a right.

After the integration of public schools was mandated by the Supreme Court, Virginia did away with its compulsory attendance law. Some counties in the Old Dominion commonwealth even abolished their public schools for a time.

Let's not go back to the bad old days.
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Re: Blaska's Blog 2/23/10

Postby minicat » Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:23 pm

HOMOsapien wrote: I here the leaking sound coming from the isthmus.


Along with the rest of your blather, this little tidbit is just one proof of Uncle Leaver's point.
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Re: Blaska's Blog 2/23/10

Postby Uncle_Leaver » Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:31 pm

HOMOsapien wrote:News flash. Wisconsin's K-12 tax funded system is privatized by WEAC and the state department of publicly administered propaganda to young people.

Newsflash: You're completely wrong.

When kids go to private charter schools or participate in public school choice, the money follows. If you want to say these entities are publicly subsidized, you'd be correct.

Of course, that's not what you said ... because you're a freakin' moron.
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Re: Blaska's Blog 2/23/10

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:52 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:After the integration of public schools was mandated by the Supreme Court, Virginia did away with its compulsory attendance law. Some counties in the Old Dominion commonwealth even abolished their public schools for a time.

Let's not go back to the bad old days.

What does this example have to do with compulsory education in Wisconsin? Are you implying that a policy that allows disruptive students to either be removed by administrators, or voluntarily leave the system, is a racist or discriminatory policy?
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Re: Blaska's Blog 2/23/10

Postby Donald » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:17 pm

Most Republicans aren't against public education, and there are plenty of Democrats who have concerns about the priorities of the teachers' unions and the educational establishment from time to time.

Unions do a lot of good, but they are the most conservative force in education today. Don't expect progressive change from the unions. Some of the more politically conservative areas of the state have the most innovation in public education. Meanwhile progressive Madison is stuck with an outdated education philosophy, while trying to sell itself to the increasing number of people leaving the district.
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Re: Blaska's Blog 2/23/10

Postby HOMOsapien » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:20 pm

Uncle_Leaver wrote:You're completely wrong.


In fact, I am correct.

Prove that WEAC and its pension fund aren't subsidized by tax payers. In fact, they are.

Did you know that the WEA trust lost millions on highly risky derivatives trading? Another fact, those loses were covered by tax payers.
HOMOsapien
 

Re: Blaska's Blog 2/23/10

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:35 pm

ArturoBandini wrote:What does this example have to do with compulsory education in Wisconsin? Are you implying that a policy that allows disruptive students to either be removed by administrators, or voluntarily leave the system, is a racist or discriminatory policy?

Let's take Madison's public schools as an example.

African American middle school students are suspended more than any other ethnic group, as reported in 1998-99.

Males, special education students, and African American students are suspended in greater numbers than they are represented in the total student population.


From page 16 of this pdf.

Yes, I know the data is a decade old, but little has changed since then. Whether or not it is overt discrimination, alllowing districts to permanently exclude students will disproportionately affect minorities. Maybe that is all right with you.
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Re: Blaska's Blog 2/23/10

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:59 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
ArturoBandini wrote:What does this example have to do with compulsory education in Wisconsin? Are you implying that a policy that allows disruptive students to either be removed by administrators, or voluntarily leave the system, is a racist or discriminatory policy?

Let's take Madison's public schools as an example.

African American middle school students are suspended more than any other ethnic group, as reported in 1998-99.

Males, special education students, and African American students are suspended in greater numbers than they are represented in the total student population.


From page 16 of this pdf.

Yes, I know the data is a decade old, but little has changed since then. Whether or not it is overt discrimination, alllowing districts to permanently exclude students will disproportionately affect minorities. Maybe that is all right with you.

OK, I'm entirely willing to concede that any policy that enables the removal of students is going to disproportionately affect minority students. But, I'm arguing that such a policy might be in the best interest of both the students who are removed or remove themselves, and the classroom teachers that can then devote their time to teaching, instead of babysitting or policing.
It is not overt discrimination based on race or income (indeed, such discrimination is and should remain illegal) - it would, however, be overt discrimination based on ability to behave in a way conducive to learning in a classroom environment. Think of such a policy as an aid to our teachers - they will have to put up with less bullshit in the classroom! I thought this whole thread was about supporting the needs of teachers right?
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Re: Blaska's Blog 2/23/10

Postby Uncle_Leaver » Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:00 pm

HOMOsapien wrote:In fact, I am correct.

In fact, you prove yourself a bigger doofus with each subsequent post, dumbass.

Prove that WEAC and its pension fund aren't subsidized by tax payers. In fact, they are.

By its very definition a public subsidy is not private financing. Do you even know the difference between the public and private sectors?

Did you know that the WEA trust lost millions on highly risky derivatives trading? Another fact, those loses were covered by tax payers.

How about a source on that? I'd like to know how many millions were lost and how risky the investments really were.

But while I'm waiting for a link I suspect you'll never provide, are you aware that the private banking sector lost a pile of cash so large that it makes the entire WEA Trust look like a Dickensian pittance? Guess who's footing the bill for that one.

You see, you're so thick you don't know where your outrage should really be directed. Way to let 'em game you, genius.
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Re: Blaska's Blog 2/23/10

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:04 pm

A couple of kids in my neighborhood growing up were home schooled. Boy, did we think they were weird. I should follow up to see how they are doing now as adults. Now I view "weird" as a highly desirable attribute...

Homeschoolers perform roughly 30% better than their public school counterparts on standardized exams (2009): http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/200 ... nal-tests/
Beyond academics, there were significant results regarding achievement gaps. It is common knowledge that gender, as well as parents' income and education levels will greatly affect a public school student's academic results. Public schools have invested greatly to try to close these achievement gaps. The study, however, shows the achievement gaps found in public school were greatly diminished for the home educated.

For example, home-schooled boys scored at the 87th percentile and girls at the 88th. Household income had little impact on the results of home-school students: Children of parents with an income between $35,000 and $49,000 scored at the 86th percentile, whereas children of parents with an income over $70,000 scored at the 89th percentile.

As one would expect, the education level of parents did affect the results. For example, home-school students of parents without college degrees scored, on average, at the 83rd percentile for the core subjects. When one parent had a college degree, those students scored at the 86th percentile, and when both parents had a college degree, those students scored at the 90th percentile. There was virtually no difference, however, between the scores of students whose parents were certified teachers and those who were not.
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Re: Blaska's Blog 2/23/10

Postby jjoyce » Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:17 pm

Re: Discipline

I believe one of the victims of our effed-up school funding "formula" is support staff such as guidance counselors and social workers. Teachers shouldn't have to deal with discipline and students who are acting out shouldn't (necessarily) be kicked out of school.

Note to Blaska and any others looking to misrepresent this: If a kid brings a gun to school, take him to jail. Punching a teacher should earn the same punishment. I'm talking about general rowdiness and classroom disruption which even the best students engage in on occasion.


There should, however, be a place where teachers can send them so they don't interfere with the learning process and can have their own special needs met. Some imply that they should simply be ejected from the system. But anyone who has ever gone to a class reunion and encountered the screw-up who is now running a software company understands that kids need to be in school.
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Re: Blaska's Blog 2/23/10

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:34 pm

jjoyce - where is your quote from? This thread?

The cut-ups from my high school class seemed much more likely to find success by starting their own lawncare service, or maybe following their parents into a skilled trade (something not emphasized at my high school, which focused on college admission rate).
Here are a bunch of successful people who didn't complete high school (or worse): http://www.education-reform.net/dropouts.htm

Different strokes, right?

I agree that alternative, non-classroom (dare I say, non-academic) programs for problem students would be an attractive compromise instead of tossing students under the proverbial bus - maybe someone who knows better can chime in here...?
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Re: Blaska's Blog 2/23/10

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:46 pm

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