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Unanswered questions posed to David Blaska

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Re: Unanswered questions posed to David Blaska

Postby David Blaska » Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:24 pm

snoqueen wrote:... Why aren't the identity safeguards used in a court of law sufficient?


Finger printing?
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Re: Unanswered questions posed to David Blaska

Postby jman111 » Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:32 pm

David Blaska wrote:THAT's the Jeremy I know! Always critical of others' arguments but never offers any of his own!

Argumentum ad hominem, right on cue.
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Re: Unanswered questions posed to David Blaska

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:45 pm

David Blaska wrote:
snoqueen wrote:... Why aren't the identity safeguards used in a court of law sufficient?


Finger printing?

I've been called for jury duty next month. They won't be taking my finger prints to prove I'm me, although they are on file from when I enlisted.
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Re: Unanswered questions posed to David Blaska

Postby ilikebeans » Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:23 pm

David Blaska wrote:
ilikebeans wrote:Now, your questions: They are not based on statements I made, factual or otherwise, and you're posting them in an effort to distract from the original issue; i.e., backing up your statements.

#3 and #4 very much are. I responded 11 times in the first four pages of this forum on your issue; you can respond to my issue(s). Otherwise, you are being tendentious.

Sigh. I could point out that you kept including alleged new "facts" in your 11 responses that I challenged and required supporting documentation, but ok.

3) Why do you consider it onerous for Democrats to show identification at the polling place?

How telling that you include "Democrats" in that question, as if there are no challenges to anyone of any other political persuasion. That's called a leading question, by the way. Have you composed phone polls for the Republicans recently?

At any rate, as this 2005 study states:

- An estimated 23 percent of persons aged 65 and over do not have a Wisconsin drivers license or a photo ID.
- An estimated 98,247 Wisconsin residents ages 35 through 64 also do not have either a drivers license or a photo ID.

So yes, I feel it IS onerous to expect this entire population to obtain photo IDs in time for 2012 elections, especially when a significant portion of the 65 and older group may be disabled or otherwise confined to a home and never needed a photo ID in the past. As recent reports have shown, DMV outlets tend to be few, far between, and with short hours in remote parts of the state. As I'm sure you've also seen, DMV workers have been explicitly ordered NOT to mention free photo IDs unless the customer asks.

4) Do you believe that the courts convict each and every offense that occurs or that some offenses go undetected?

Duh. Of course offenses go undetected; some more than others, depending on the crime.

But we're talking about voter fraud at the ballot. Officials can get a general indication of this via prosecutions that do occur, exit polls, and citizen complaints: "What do you mean, I've already voted?"

There has been absolutely no indication of widespread abuse; certainly not, in my opinion, to justify $6 million the first year and $4 million every year after that. We're broke, remember? That's the mantra of your party.

Now, I've answered your questions. Let's go back to mine, shall we?
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Re: Unanswered questions posed to David Blaska

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:28 pm

Don't expect The Gelding to give you a direct reply to your questions.
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Re: Unanswered questions posed to David Blaska

Postby snoqueen » Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:03 pm

Finger printing?


Of course not. Trying to vote does not mean you're being charged with a crime.

I was thinking along the lines of being sworn in to testify or for jury duty.

Of course, you knew that.
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Re: Unanswered questions posed to David Blaska

Postby David Blaska » Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:59 am

But those accused of a crime are finger printed.
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Re: Unanswered questions posed to David Blaska

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:04 am

David Blaska wrote:But those accused of a crime are finger printed.

No shit, Sherlock. Now honestly address snoqueen's comments without your usual snark, if you can.
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Re: Unanswered questions posed to David Blaska

Postby Bland » Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:05 am

David Blaska wrote:But those accused of a crime are finger printed.
Are you seriously suggesting that either courts or cops routinely use fingerprints to determine who they already have in custody?
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Re: Unanswered questions posed to David Blaska

Postby David Blaska » Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:13 am

ilikebeans wrote:So yes, I feel it IS onerous to expect this entire population to obtain photo IDs in time for 2012 elections, especially when a significant portion of the 65 and older group may be disabled or otherwise confined to a home and never needed a photo ID in the past.
Now, I've answered your questions. Let's go back to mine, shall we?

Not quite done with you, Mr. Beans. Why, exactly, is it "onerous" for these folks to get a photo I.D.? Do all of these people vote? Why isn't 14 months enough time? Is it onerous for these folks to register as voters -- even in same-day registration they must bring proof of residence. Is that "onerous?" Is $28 unaffordable? Is it "onerous" to get a photo I.D. when traveling abroad? Renting a movie? Buying a bottle of beer?

Bonus question: as a matter of practice and principle, is it more cost effective to prevent a problem than to detect it after it has occurred?

Lightning round question: Why have five states gone to photo I.D. within the past year?

Question for extra credit: Is it acceptable for illegal immigrants to vote?
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Re: Unanswered questions posed to David Blaska

Postby Bland » Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:19 am

David Blaska wrote:Bonus question: as a matter of practice and principle, is it more cost effective to prevent a problem than to detect it after it has occurred?

Ha! So you're saying you support measures to prevent global climate change, right?
To your question I answer yes but only if there's a reason to suspect there might be a problem in the first place.
Non-existent problems don't require fixing.
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Re: Unanswered questions posed to David Blaska

Postby O.J. » Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:20 am

David Blaska wrote:Lightning round question: Why have five states gone to photo I.D. within the past year?


Because it's in the Republican Party's best interest to restrict voter turnout. Are you honestly too stupid to realize this?
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Re: Unanswered questions posed to David Blaska

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:24 am

David Blaska wrote:Is $28 unaffordable? Is it "onerous" to get a photo I.D. when traveling abroad? Renting a movie? Buying a bottle of beer?

The 24th Amendment concerns voting, not traveling, watch movies or buying booze.


David Blaska wrote:Lightning round question: Why have five states gone to photo I.D. within the past year?

Ever hear of ALEC?

David Blaska wrote:Question for extra credit: Is it acceptable for illegal immigrants to vote?

Straw man. Who says it is acceptable?
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Re: Unanswered questions posed to David Blaska

Postby ilikebeans » Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:25 am

David Blaska wrote:Not quite done with you, Mr. Beans.

Hahaha! Good one.

You see, Mr. Blaska, now you're attempting to employ the standard GOP tactic of putting your opponent on the defensive, regardless of what issues you sidestepped in the past.

Thing is, I'm not playing your little game. Others have answered your questions in ways I agree with, but I'll only personally address your new questions of opinion once you address the claims of fact you made back at the end of July (see: beginning of thread).

Let me simplify for you (again!) by quoting only my challenges to your ostensibly factual statements that require supporting citations:

David Blaska wrote:I will grant you one point, Mr. Beans: Voter I.D. does reduce turnout among fraudulent voters.

Q1: What studies/statistics show that, for the other six states with strict photo voter ID laws, fraudulent voting at the ballot box decreased as a direct result of the law?

David Blaska wrote:Placing a mark on drivers licenses denoting felon is under consideration.

Q2: What is your source on this?
Q3: Assuming this plan passes, how would the law prevent felons from voting if they presented an ID other than their driver's license?

David Blaska wrote:As to the # of prosecutions: proving an intent and getting a conviction is a difficult and time-consuming proposition. Prevention is much more cost-effective.

Q4: Please cite numbers to show that prosecuting the current low numbers of fraudulent voters (11 charged in 2010) is more expensive to state taxpayers than the estimated $6 million this year and $4 million/year after this law will cost.
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Re: Unanswered questions posed to David Blaska

Postby David Blaska » Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:44 am

Please cite your initial claim that Voter I.D. discourages turnout among minorities.

Election data in Georgia demonstrate that concern about a negative effect on the Democratic or minority vote is baseless. Turnout there increased more dramatically in 2008 — the first presidential election held after the state’s photo-ID law went into effect — than it did in states without photo ID. Georgia had a record turnout in 2008, the largest in its history — nearly 4 million voters. And Democratic turnout was up an astonishing 6.1 percentage points from the 2004 election, the fourth-largest increase of any state. The black share of the statewide vote increased from 25 percent in 2004 to 30 percent in 2008, according to the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies. According to Census Bureau surveys, 65 percent of the black voting-age population voted in the 2008 election, compared with only 54.4 percent in 2004, an increase of more than ten percentage points.


Please support your supposition that there is no voter fraud in the U.S.

As the U.S. Supreme Court said when it upheld Indiana’s photo-ID law in 2008, “Flagrant examples of such fraud . . . have been documented throughout this Nation’s history by respected historians and journalists.” The liberal groups that fought Indiana’s law didn’t have much luck with liberal justice John Paul Stevens, who wrote the 6–3 decision. Before being named to the Supreme Court, Justice Stevens practiced law in Chicago, a hotbed of electoral malfeasance . . .

Source
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