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Challenge to Forons: Occupy TDPF!

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Challenge to Forons: Occupy TDPF!

Postby jjoyce » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:35 am

On this thread, I wrote this:

I challenge people on this Forum to start a thread this week. Don't just show up and pile on or be content to just respond all the time. Find an article you think we should read and add a paragraph of commentary to the link. Ask a question you think will bring out the best in your fellow Forons. Recommend a band or a restaurant. Take a controversial stand on a topic and explain why you feel the way you do. And if somebody does that and you disagree, speak to that point instead of falling into the trap of trying to point out that they're inconsistent.


Take TDPF back!
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Re: Challenge to Forons: Occupy TDPF!

Postby bdog » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:39 am

Done. Can't wait for all the meatloaf (the food, not the singer) haters to come out of the woodwork.
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Re: Challenge to Forons: Occupy TDPF!

Postby Galoot » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:48 am

No thanks, Jason. I have zero interest in trying to steer more clicks to your website, as long as Isthmus has a moron like Blaska on staff. You guys lost all credibility you might have had with that move.
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Re: Challenge to Forons: Occupy TDPF!

Postby bdog » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:52 am

If everyone here becomes more civil it's probably LESS clicks.

So if you really want to get back at Isthmus, do what Jason says.

Otherwise, continue with business as usual. Your choice.
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Re: Challenge to Forons: Occupy TDPF!

Postby snoqueen » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:09 pm

Jason, you know I'm basically on board with this but who was it hired Blaska in the first place? He wouldn't even be here if he wasn't more or less staff. He's well over 1/3 of the problem all by himself. You want to be fair and hire flat-earthers to keep a "balance," and this is what you get. I can't even follow his arguments half the time so there's not a prayer of refuting them. It's like arguing with a bus full of preschoolers, or maybe like a bad divorce where your ex keeps jumping all around and bringing up stuff that happened in 1993.

I mean "you" in the sense of management, not personally. But you know what I mean.

I laugh to think we intimidated the alders in the old days, though. That was fun.
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Re: Challenge to Forons: Occupy TDPF!

Postby bdog » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:09 pm

I feel the same way about you Sno.

More often since Walker got elected.

Who's the flat-earther? Look in the mirror.
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Re: Challenge to Forons: Occupy TDPF!

Postby ilikebeans » Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:12 am

bdog wrote:Who's the flat-earther? Look in the mirror.

You're saying that snoqueen ignores obvious facts? Seriously?

Ok, take a moment and reflect on that. I'll wait.
.
.
.
Are you still sure you want to go with that position?
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Re: Challenge to Forons: Occupy TDPF!

Postby kurt_w » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:27 am

Jason, not to be mean -- or to belabor the obvious -- but "occupy" style events aren't generally organized by the managers of the venues to be "occupied".

There is some interesting discussion on TDPF. You're obviously hoping to give that a boost with the appeal in this thread. Good luck with that (I mean this sincerely).

There's also a lot of worthless crap and trolling, too. You've generally chosen to avoid direct intervention -- e.g., you've kept Flanders around all these years, and when his trolling causes a thread to degenerate too far and too fast, you've typically blamed the forons for "feeding the troll". Well, it's true that we've often collectively failed to hold our tongues. We've fed the trolls, responded to provocations rather than ignoring them. But you're the one who's chosen to house the trolls. The ratio of crappy troll-infested threads is a function of both how the forons respond to provocations and how heavy or light a moderation hand you choose to employ.

Over the years I've seen at least three explanations for why you tolerate (or, in the case of Blaska, even promote) the presence of crappy and (let's face it) mostly right-wing trolls:

    (1) They provide an alternative point of view to the dominant left-of-center position of most people here. In essence, it's a form of affirmative action for conservatives. What's ironic about this is that all of the standard conservative critiques of affirmative action apply here. Blaska and Flanders can coast by on name-calling, potty humor, regurgitated talking points, etc. because there's no actual incentive for them to make the effort to engage in thoughtful, rational, constructive interaction. Think of it as the soft bigotry of low expectations -- nobody expects much from Ned or Blaska, so there's no pressure for them to improve.

    (2) The trolling is a feature, not a bug. According to this explanation, you actually prefer to keep Flanders etc. around, specifically to provoke others into responding. Yes, it may lower the quality of postings, but it increases the quantity. A heavier intervention by the moderator(s) would result in a DPF that was more civil, more rational ... and a lot quieter.

    (3) Moderating TDPF takes work, and you're too busy to adopt a more active moderation role.
It's your Forum, and you can manage it as you see fit. I doubt that I'd do a better job of running this place (probably a much worse job, actually). But let's be absolutely clear that responsibility for the state of health of TDPF is shared between the forons and the management. That applies to the good stuff -- good discussions only happen because you've created this venue to host the content and people volunteer their time to provide the content. Yay for Isthmus, yay for Jason, yay for the forons. On the other hand, when things go downhill in a once-promising thread, that represents a failure on our part and a failure on the management's part. Neither side here gets all the credit, and neither side deserves all the blame.
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Re: Challenge to Forons: Occupy TDPF!

Postby bdog » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:34 am

ilikebeans wrote:
bdog wrote:Who's the flat-earther? Look in the mirror.

You're saying that snoqueen ignores obvious facts? Seriously?

How about this from Jason's Solomon thread:

snoqueen wrote:And we were discussing the drinking and sexual behavior among city alders. What in the world Prosser has to do with this is beyond me.


The "money" quote in the article Jason linked to was one from Alder Tim Bruer where he directly referenced the Prosser case.

And Sno had no fricking clue.

Ever since Walker got elected she has gone downhill fast.
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Re: Challenge to Forons: Occupy TDPF!

Postby kiwiwannabe » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:08 am

So Prosser and Walsh Bradley WERE drinking and having sex?

Link, please. I didn't see those "facts" in the TB quote. If you can't tell the difference between alleged physical assault and alleged sexual assault, you need to do a lot more reading.

Or maybe reading comprehension is not your forte.......

I'm sure someone would be happy to demonstrate for you!
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Re: Challenge to Forons: Occupy TDPF!

Postby bdog » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:25 am

kiwiwannabe wrote:So Prosser and Walsh Bradley WERE drinking and having sex?

Now where did I say that Kiwi? You are trying to misrepresent the facts. Therefore I must bring the Snohammer down on you:

Image

OBJECTION!

SUSTAINED!
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Re: Challenge to Forons: Occupy TDPF!

Postby kiwiwannabe » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:30 am

Read the boxed quote from snoqueen v e r y s l o w l y

Discussing possible sex between drunk people has NOTHING to do with Prosser. I don't think he's ever HAD sex, with a woman anyway. Do you have any proof of that?

I rest my case. Mistrial.
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Re: Challenge to Forons: Occupy TDPF!

Postby bdog » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:37 am

My God Kiwi, I must admit you're right - just realized the names are different:

David / Anne

Brian / Elena

What was I (and Alder Bruer) thinking of trying to compare them?

Thank you for the wise guidance.
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Re: Challenge to Forons: Occupy TDPF!

Postby massimo » Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:22 pm

I've been grappling with this recently:

Some believe that the inability of left-minded (i.e. virtually all) forons to entertain or accept anything other than prevailing liberal logic is the reason Blaska, Ned**, Meade, et. al. are so effective at getting under foron skins.

If this is the case, why have I read so many thought-provoking and genial discussions including ArturoBandini? Is it because Arturo promotes a breed of conservatism more palatable to lefties? Or is it because Arturo is generally pleasant and non-confrontational (i.e. not a dick)?

I think I've made up my mind.

** I hesitate to include Ned in this list, his shtick seems somewhat quaint compared to the new crop. Also, he is capable of keeping politics out of apolitical threads (I said "capable").
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Re: Challenge to Forons: Occupy TDPF!

Postby kurt_w » Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:47 pm

massimo wrote:If this is the case, why have I read so many thought-provoking and genial discussions including ArturoBandini? Is it because Arturo promotes a breed of conservatism more palatable to lefties? Or is it because Arturo is generally pleasant and non-confrontational (i.e. not a dick)?


There are several conservative bloggers whose views I actively seek out (i.e., read them on a semi-regular basis). I'm not talking about the occasional poking one's head into NRO or RedState to marvel at the latest stupidity; I'm talking about going to Bruce Bartlett's blog or Daniel Drezner's blog or whatever, in the hope and expectation of actually learning something worthwhile.

I can't imagine ever saying that about David Blaska.
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