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How to improve TDPF

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Re: How to improve TDPF

Postby scratch » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:28 pm

jjoyce wrote:I continue to be interested in ideas to improve TDPF.
Much of the chest thumping above is tedious and argues as much as anything for a nuking of the boards. I don't care about Meade's personal life and neither should you, particularly if you're deliberately anonymous on the board so nobody can find anything out about your own personal life.


I see your point and I agree to a point, but the monikers forons choose say something about who they are, perhaps supplying some sort of context to their point of view. Meade chose not to use a moniker, so it would seem that he either thinks it's germane for the rest of us to know who he is, or that publically acknowledging who he is adds some sort of context to his postings. In his case his personal identity is also tied in with public actions like those he and Althouse undertook during the demonstrations.
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Re: How to improve TDPF

Postby jjoyce » Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:20 pm

Your justification is a crock, um, "scratch."

It's fine to be anonymous. But going after someone personally when not divulging who you are is a punk move. It's like throwing rocks off a bridge at passing cars.

Why not participate anonymously and just leave others' personal business out of your posts? Otherwise, you come off as creepy. Maybe that's your intent, but why do it? Do you need to address others' personal business in order to win an argument?

Speaking from experience, there's an indescribable feeling that combines humiliation and anger when someone takes an anonymous swipe at your personal life. It's like having somebody punch you when you can't punch back. It's cowardly.
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Re: How to improve TDPF

Postby Ned's Mom » Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:49 pm

jjoyce wrote:Speaking from experience, there's an indescribable feeling that combines humiliation and anger when someone takes an anonymous swipe at your personal life. It's like having somebody punch you when you can't punch back. It's cowardly.

And that's why I so appreciate your continued defense of the Forum contributions of my dear sweet Nedward Scotchgard Flanders. Say what you will about his piano-playing, or his complexion, or his ability to breathe, chew, or count with his mouth closed; he's nothing if not earnest.
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Re: How to improve TDPF

Postby scratch » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:33 pm

jjoyce wrote:Your justification is a crock, um, "scratch."
It's fine to be anonymous. But going after someone personally when not divulging who you are is a punk move. It's like throwing rocks off a bridge at passing cars.
Why not participate anonymously and just leave others' personal business out of your posts? Otherwise, you come off as creepy. Maybe that's your intent, but why do it? Do you need to address others' personal business in order to win an argument?
Speaking from experience, there's an indescribable feeling that combines humiliation and anger when someone takes an anonymous swipe at your personal life. It's like having somebody punch you when you can't punch back. It's cowardly.


Point(s) taken, though not necessarily fully agreed with. Another message board I frequent has a rule that family members of public figures and other board members' families are off-limits unless they are inserted into the general focus of the board (it's a sports fans' message board), so, for instance, Aaron Rodgers' wife is to be left alone, but Kurt Warner's wife Brenda is fair game because she has publically taken part in football- and NFL-related discussions. It's a rule of thumb that I think makes sense, Jason, if your name is Jason or JJoyce (I enjoy taking a page from Meade's book at least as much as you do). Meade and Althouse participated in public actions involving the demonstrations last year, Meade comments on the demonstrations and related issues, and since Althouse is a public figure I think she's fair game in general. That said I wouldn't say that proclivities or activities with no tie to any subject on the forum are fair game.

Other punk moves include threadjacking, asking non sequitor questions in response to questions from other board members, and a whole raft of other frequent board behavior. But who's counting?
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Re: How to improve TDPF

Postby pjbogart » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:32 pm

Honestly Jason, Meade and Althouse go to great lengths to insert themselves into the public conversation. They pick fights, post videos of themselves and participate in virtually non-stop blogging about their every thought. If they didn't enjoy the attention, they wouldn't do it.

Have you seen this video?

Try to stick with it through the boring intro. Do you think this confrontation has anything to do with a memorial or do you think they're probably just looking to embarrass a liberal? Would you call this video polite? Even-handed? Do you suppose it's issue driven or mostly just a personal attack on this young woman?

Fine, you don't like the personal nature of the attacks on Meade and Althouse. I can appreciate that, especially if you feel it darkens the tone of the board. I put Meade on my ignore list last week and he's going to stay there. I'll try not to respond to quotes of his posts either.

But don't try to make him out to be some sort of victim.
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Re: How to improve TDPF

Postby Meade » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:19 pm

pjbogart wrote:Have you seen this video?

Whoever made that video used footage of ours without our permission. For all I know, the person who made it uses the pseudonym "pjbogart".

Jason didn't make me out to be some kind of victim. What he said is: "[...G]oing after someone personally when not divulging who you are is a punk move. It's like throwing rocks off a bridge at passing cars. Why not participate anonymously and just leave others' personal business out of your posts? Otherwise, you come off as creepy. Maybe that's your intent, but why do it? Do you need to address others' personal business in order to win an argument?"
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Re: How to improve TDPF

Postby john_titor » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:31 pm

jjoyce wrote: I don't care about Meade's personal life and neither should you, particularly if you're deliberately anonymous on the board so nobody can find anything out about your own personal life.


Isn't this entire forum about our personal lives?

jjoyce wrote:
It's fine to be anonymous. But going after someone personally when not divulging who you are is a punk move. It's like throwing rocks off a bridge at passing cars.

Why not participate anonymously and just leave others' personal business out of your posts? Otherwise, you come off as creepy.

Speaking from experience, there's an indescribable feeling that combines humiliation and anger when someone takes an anonymous swipe at your personal life. It's like having somebody punch you when you can't punch back. It's cowardly.


So if you knew who they were, you could punch them back? Would you do it through the computer or drive to their house and ring the bell?

You chose to post under your real name. You didn't have to. Neither did Meade or Brenda (and for all I know they may be imposters). Why would you use your real name if you know what jerks people can be? What does it give you?

I was being sincere in my questions to Meade's background. Was your romance/marriage proposal covered by The New York Times? Would you say they are a private or a public couple? I was also trying to make a point about keeping things private.

Anonymity is a big question and where does it stop. People said mean things at the rallies. Should we restrict access to protest to those who are willing to have their state issued IDs scanned and verified?


edit 1&2: Tried to sneak this in and got caught: " I was also trying to make a point about keeping things private."
Last edited by john_titor on Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: How to improve TDPF

Postby bdog » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:32 pm

pjbogart wrote:Do you think this confrontation has anything to do with a memorial or do you think they're probably just looking to embarrass a liberal?

Meade was authentically disturbed by what he saw those people do to the memorial, IMHO. There may have been more to it than that, but the people in the video embarrassed themselves more than anything else.
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Re: How to improve TDPF

Postby pjbogart » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:06 pm

bdog wrote:
pjbogart wrote:Do you think this confrontation has anything to do with a memorial or do you think they're probably just looking to embarrass a liberal?

Meade was authentically disturbed by what he saw those people do to the memorial, IMHO. There may have been more to it than that, but the people in the video embarrassed themselves more than anything else.


No doubt, bdog. And I think they deserved to be confronted by security. But when the protesters attempted to justify, even half apologize for the infraction, they were immediately shouted down and the critique continued. It's almost as if the memorial and what it represented was secondary to the video being made.

And the video says nothing about homage to fallen soldiers. It is 100% focused upon that woman. Her name is used dozens of times along with her picture and personal details intended to embarrass her.

What would have been the harm in simply letting a security guard know that you found the display offensive in its current location? You'd miss your chance to belittle the woman and videotape yourself doing so? But hey, let's not get too personal around here. We can disagree without being disagreeable, right?
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Re: How to improve TDPF

Postby David Marshall » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:01 pm

Complaining about complaints regarding this forum are seemingly relevant. I'm kind of happy that I found this discusion at the bottom of the page, but voices are missing elsewhere. Cream this nubie to the forum if you want but I think this space works best with the "elder" voices that brought it forward.
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Re: How to improve TDPF

Postby Erik Paulson » Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:03 pm

Meade wrote:In light of the Brenda Konkel kerfuffle over real names vs. pseudonyms and how the forons are a bunch of sociopaths swimming in a cesspool of personal attacks and other bad behavior, I have a proposal for improving the Forum and lifting it out of its downward spiral:

$1 per comment.


I have Meade and a few others on my ignore list, but I happened to be reading the forum without being logged in, and in this instance I agree with Meade, and have suggested the exact same thing before. A $1 (or even $0.50) a comment is a reasonable plan. It's cheap enough that its not a serious deterrent for someone who has something they really want to say, but a high enough bar that vapid comments/metacomments about the messenger really aren't worth posting.

The Daily Page is a valuable distribution channel. It gets more traffic than any random Wordpress blog that most of us could start. If I want my stuff to be read, posting it here is a good way to accomplish that.

The main draw of the site is the work created by the the fulltime staff and contributors to the Isthmus. A dollar a comment, on either articles or in the Forum, will certainly cut down on number of forum posts or comments, but I doubt it will have much of an impact on the number of page views the dailypage.com gets overall, and shouldn't make much of a blip for their advertising revenue.

This isn't likely to be a serious revenue stream for the dailypage, either. Most of the online transaction processing fees are in the $.30+2.5% range. You can amortize that by selling comments "in bulk" and buying credits ahead of time, but I have a hard time imagining myself buying more than a few bucks worth of credits ahead of time.

It may be too high a bar for some of the boards. I don't post or even read the "Arts and Entertainment" or "Eats" boards, so I have no idea what this idea would do to those boards and that community.

As an alternative to charging, perhaps some sort of earned credit. One post for every 10 articles viewed or advertisements interacted with or something along those lines - a reverse paywall of sorts. It opens a whole new can of worms when thinking about how you explain it to your advertisers and "dealing" with fraud and abuse, but for people who are hung up on the idea of handing over cash it might be more palatable.

I post 0.02 posts a day, so I'm not a big poster (actually I think that's just forum posts, and doesn't include article comments, but even so my real number is maybe only 0.03). The dollar a comment fee wouldn't cut that number down, and if it improved the discussion, might actually increase it a bit.
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Re: How to improve TDPF

Postby supaunknown » Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:46 pm

32 posts in 5 years? Buscemi would call that a fountain of conversation. A geyser.

The only way I can see to improve upon your GREAT idea of Isthmus charging users per post would be to charge them retroactively as well. My check for $5526 is in the mail.
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Re: How to improve TDPF

Postby other i » Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:32 pm

I've actually been putting 50 cents in a jar every time I decide NOT to post and I've seen an upswing in my revenue stream lately. It's getting easier and easier all the time. Not sure if it's the positive reinforcement or the quality of the threads into which I might post.

What's YOUR guess?
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Re: How to improve TDPF

Postby Stebben84 » Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:45 pm

Charging to post on a forum is one of the dumbest ideas I've heard. Watch tdpf posts plummet to zero.
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Re: How to improve TDPF

Postby snoqueen » Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:03 pm

What he said.

I would be gone.
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