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League slams corporate-debates

Please limit discussion in this area to local and state politics.

The League of Women Voters says Eisman is a legit candidate who should be welcomed to the debates. The ATC-AmFam-MGE-WEAC-Chamber debate commission (self-styled "We the People") says no. What do you think?

Eisman belongs in the debate.
18
75%
Keep it a two-party affair.
2
8%
I'm sick of elections. When does the streetfighting start? And will Stu be there?
4
17%
 
Total votes : 24

Postby Stu Levitan » Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:32 am

On my what?
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Postby BobArctor » Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:07 am

If a legitimate candidate, who is on the ballot and met the requirements, is not allowed to debate, boycott the debate. Hold house parties and turn off the TV. It should be a violation of campaign laws to refuse inclusion of a candidate who meets the ballot requirements.

Playing keep-away with the electoral system is a corrupt act. I don't vote for thugs, and this looks like thuggery. A pox on both their parties.
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Postby Dulouz » Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:42 am

Stu Levitan wrote:
bmasel wrote:
Stu Levitan wrote: shouldn't someone campaigning on clean government follow campaign finance laws? Even if it's an independent expenditure (which looks doubtful), it should still have disclaimer/aapf, right?


You presume it was "paid for." YouTube is free, and there may well not have been production expenses over the reporting threshold.


Being out of politics and all, I may be a little rusty on my campaign finance laws, but don't you need a disclaimer even if item is "free"?


Stu Levitan wrote:My what?


See, you keep saying that your are "out of politics" yet you keep shilling for Doyle and you do so in the most obnoxious way. When you aren't directly provoking Manski for a reply, you are engaging in the new version of red-baiting (suggesting Eisman is terrorist sympathizer via the Barrett crap)--maybe we should call it "green baiting" after the party that you hate and the color of Islam?

Of course, I could be wrong. Maybe you are actually working for the Greens and have realized your greatest political asset: annoying people. I probably would have voted for Doyle in a robotic, non-thinking, stop the madness act had it not been for your incessant yammering!

Regardless of your pay, you, by posting here, are "in politics". I don't know if you are working for Doyle or deep cover for the Greens, but don't try to spin that you, Stu Levitan, are "out of politics."
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Postby lukpac » Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:35 am



Hmm.

A search for "doyle" in the madison.com archives yielded 42 hits in the past week alone.

If you don't like Coke there's always tea or coffee...
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Postby Ben Manski » Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:09 am

lukpac wrote:


Hmm.

A search for "doyle" in the madison.com archives yielded 42 hits in the past week alone.

If you don't like Coke there's always tea or coffee...


You missed the point. That's all coverage re: Doyle & Eisman at Labor Day . . .
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Postby Ben Manski » Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:10 am

From the Eisman campaign . . .

ALL THREE GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATES WILLING TO DEBATE

Madison -- Both the Democratic and Republican candidates for governor
have expressed their acceptance of the inclusion of Green Party
candidate Nelson Eisman in the upcoming gubernatorial debates.

Mark Graul, speaking for Mark Green's campaign, called the Eisman
campaign this past week to make clear that Green is "not opposed" to
Eisman's participation in the debates held by "We the People," a
consortium of Wisconsin media and interest groups.

At a Labor Day event Monday, Governor Doyle told Wisconsin Public
Radio that, regarding the debates, "whoever's there, that's who I'll
debate."

Eisman responded, "I look forward to debating with the other
candidates, so that when the voters go to the polls, their decision is
well-informed. Each of us brings a distinctive point of view, which
will make for an engaging debate."

Eisman continued, "My opponents have indicated their readiness to
participate in a full and open debate. I trust that "We the People"
will honor that in the debates they hold. I am also eager to join my
opponents in the debates hosted by Wisconsin's League of Women
Voters."
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Postby Andy Olsen » Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:05 pm

Hey, Ben. Heard on WPR this morning, saying the choice we face is between corporate-dominated elections and a progressive-style insurgency.

Ummmm..... Aren't there more options than that? Is it really one or the other?

That just struck me as a weird and false choice.

p.s. I agree Eisman should be in the debates and I'm real sick and tired of this We the People thing. Since when is a PR firm like Wood Communications and some big companies "the people?"
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Postby Ben Manski » Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:21 pm

Andy Olsen wrote:Hey, Ben. Heard on WPR this morning, saying the choice we face is between corporate-dominated elections and a progressive-style insurgency.

Ummmm..... Aren't there more options than that? Is it really one or the other?

That just struck me as a weird and false choice.

p.s. I agree Eisman should be in the debates and I'm real sick and tired of this We the People thing. Since when is a PR firm like Wood Communications and some big companies "the people?"


Hi Andy -

I just listened to the story online - I think I was referring to the debates in particular, and to the overall financing of state elections. I suppose you're right that there are other options . . . muddling through for example. But in terms of acceptable options, I think we've got only one real alternative. Which is fighting like hell to democratize state elections and state and local government.

As you say "Since when is a PR firm like Wood Communications and some big companies "the people?""
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Postby Stu Levitan » Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:48 am

Dulouz wrote:
Stu Levitan wrote:
bmasel wrote:
Stu Levitan wrote: shouldn't someone campaigning on clean government follow campaign finance laws? Even if it's an independent expenditure (which looks doubtful), it should still have disclaimer/aapf, right?


You presume it was "paid for." YouTube is free, and there may well not have been production expenses over the reporting threshold.


Being out of politics and all, I may be a little rusty on my campaign finance laws, but don't you need a disclaimer even if item is "free"?


Stu Levitan wrote:My what?


See, you keep saying that your are "out of politics" yet you keep shilling for Doyle and you do so in the most obnoxious way. When you aren't directly provoking Manski for a reply, you are engaging in the new version of red-baiting (suggesting Eisman is terrorist sympathizer via the Barrett crap)--maybe we should call it "green baiting" after the party that you hate and the color of Islam?

Of course, I could be wrong. Maybe you are actually working for the Greens and have realized your greatest political asset: annoying people. I probably would have voted for Doyle in a robotic, non-thinking, stop the madness act had it not been for your incessant yammering!

Regardless of your pay, you, by posting here, are "in politics". I don't know if you are working for Doyle or deep cover for the Greens, but don't try to spin that you, Stu Levitan, are "out of politics."


You know, I think it's improper to post quotes out of context; my "my what?" post was in response to an item you failed to include in the colloquy. But whatever.

When I say I am out of politics, I mean I don't belong to any political party and don't expect to ever again run for political office. That seems to be out of politics. Of course, ymmv.

Of course I'm provoking Manski -- I hold him partially responsible for Bush's election in 2000. (After all, who can forget, "Al Gore, corporate whore!"). So, yeah, I cut him no slack when he and the Greens threaten to do the same to Wisconsin.

But I don't see where you get that I'm suggest Eisman is a terrorist sympathizer just because I noted his own post -- on his gubernatorial blog -- evincing support for Kevin Barrett. You know, it's not like I'm making stuff up -- I'm quoting his own blog.

What I'm suggesting is that anyone who supports Kevin Barrett's conspiracy theories shouldn't be Governor of Wisconsin. And I think all leftists should be embarrassed that the Green candidate for Governor and the Oshkosh Campus Greens have signed onto Barrett's conspiracy theories.
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Postby Peanutbutter » Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:31 am

Stu Levitan wrote:What I'm suggesting is that anyone who supports Kevin Barrett's conspiracy theories shouldn't be Governor of Wisconsin.


:roll:

While I agree that these wannabe alternative political parties serve no purpose at all (except to steal votes from the Democrats), lying about them will only encourage the deluded minority who is hellbent on throwing their votes away.

We don't need to lie. Truth, Justice and the American Way is on our side.
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Postby Stu Levitan » Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:41 am

Peanutbutter wrote:
Stu Levitan wrote:What I'm suggesting is that anyone who supports Kevin Barrett's conspiracy theories shouldn't be Governor of Wisconsin.


:roll:

While I agree that these wannabe alternative political parties serve no purpose at all (except to steal votes from the Democrats), lying about them will only encourage the deluded minority who is hellbent on throwing their votes away.

We don't need to lie. Truth, Justice and the American Way is on our side.


I really don't think I'm lying about this. Eisman posted an entry on his gubernatorial blog praising Barrett as a "brave instructor" who is exploring the "intriguing" questions over "the truth of what happened." Would it have been more accurate if I had written "who supports Kevin Barrett's conspiracy theorizing" rather than "conspiracy theories"?
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Postby Ben Manski » Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:27 am

As usual, you're blowing things out of proportion. Eisman was defending academic freedom at a moment in which Nass and Doyle and Green were jumping all over each other to subvert it. If you spoke to Eisman today, I don't think you'd find him defending Kevin Barrett's views, only his right to express them.

As for the Campus Greens at Oshkosh, gosh, there are campus greens groups all over the state, and they don't all get their orders from command central. Who knows what they are hoping to accomplish by bringing a controversial speaker to campus.

I should say that this guy (Barrett) asked the Greens at UW-Madison maybe 10 times over the course of several years for help in reserving rooms and publicizing events, and they repeatedly had to give him a polite "no." I'm guessing the familiarity bred a different response in that case . . .
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