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Can Munoz win?

Please limit discussion in this area to local and state politics.

Who will be the Mayor of Madison?

Mayor Dave
24
63%
Peter Munoz
11
29%
Ray Allen
2
5%
Other
1
3%
 
Total votes : 38

Can Munoz win?

Postby Jattpw » Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:29 am

Munoz will probably take some votes from Mayor Dave and a lot of votes from Ray Allen.

Munoz's running has everything to do with the Common Sense people not being very impressed with the early efforts and gaffs by Ray Allen.

You can expect the larger business community and maybe the police and fire unions to get behind the Munoz campaign. Allen is done.

In the general, it probably will come down to whether the "Trolley Dave" accusation can stick and how many votes it is worth.
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Postby AlphaLiberal » Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:43 am

Signs point to "no." Here are a few things he needs to work on to be a decent candidate:

a) Loosen up. Dude's pretty uptight and loses bigly to Mayor Dave in the likeability column. Surgery is recommended to get the stick removed. Or make it a strength, somehow.

b) Get a plan. A campaign based on streetcars will get traction with about 3.7% of the electorate. How will you attract the other 47% you will need to prevail?

c) Drop the personal pique. If he is really mad at Dave Cieslewicz because Dave didn't hire him, why should any voter care? For most people such alleged pettiness and arrogance is reason enough NOT to vote for someone.

d) Peter, you've told us what you do not stand for. You do not stand for light rail, you do not stand for a Mayor having ideas and trying to get them implemented. So, what do you stand for?
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Postby Brenda Konkel » Thu Dec 28, 2006 11:33 am

AlphaLiberal wrote:Signs point to "no." Here are a few things he needs to work on to be a decent candidate:

a) Loosen up. Dude's pretty uptight and loses bigly to Mayor Dave in the likeability column. Surgery is recommended to get the stick removed. Or make it a strength, somehow.

b) Get a plan. A campaign based on streetcars will get traction with about 3.7% of the electorate. How will you attract the other 47% you will need to prevail?

c) Drop the personal pique. If he is really mad at Dave Cieslewicz because Dave didn't hire him, why should any voter care? For most people such alleged pettiness and arrogance is reason enough NOT to vote for someone.

d) Peter, you've told us what you do not stand for. You do not stand for light rail, you do not stand for a Mayor having ideas and trying to get them implemented. So, what do you stand for?


Wow, 2 days into the campaign and I can tell you more about what Peter Munoz stands for than after 4 years with Mayor Dave. Unfortunately, you're going to have to go beyond the newspapers to find out more. I have an advantage in that I just called Peter and asked him and I have worked with him, but I think you're really wrong about the guy.

I don't get it, so Dave wins the "nice guy" votes . . . but isn't there more to being Mayor than being a nice guy that makes funny jokes? Madison can't be that shallow can it? I don't believe it.

As for Peter just being mad at the mayor for not getting a job, that's just spin. You yourself said its nothing more than an "allegation" and I think it was a terrible one. Don't believe it. Peter is very passionate about many things about Madison, his entry into this race is about to liven things up a bit. Give him a chance. He has much to offer. I think you'll find him kind of similar to Dave on many issues, but radically different in style. I think Peter's style would be more effective.
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Postby AlphaLiberal » Thu Dec 28, 2006 11:38 am

Even though he was a leader of the CSC, which program you opposed, you trust his judgment, Brenda?

And, to clarify, when I referred to being a ncie guy, I was referring to having a friendly demeanor versus doing whatever others want him to do. My reference is to retail politics and ability to win, which seems to be the focus of the thread.
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Postby Jattpw » Thu Dec 28, 2006 11:40 am

This sounds almost like an endorsement from you Brenda?

And someone has to ask:

Two mayors, and you don't like how either has worked with council. Is it the Mayor that is the problem?
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Postby Brenda Konkel » Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:14 pm

AlphaLiberal wrote:Even though he was a leader of the CSC, which program you opposed, you trust his judgment, Brenda?

he quit, didn't he! that shows good judgement. :)

jattpw wrote:This sounds almost like an endorsement from you Brenda?

And someone has to ask:

Two mayors, and you don't like how either has worked with council. Is it the Mayor that is the problem?


Not an endorsement yet . . . want to talk to him more and give the Mayor another chance.

I didn't have a problem with the way Bauman worked with the council, she was much more accessible and communicative. Didn't necessarily agree with her politics. But at least you could figure out how to work with her or when it just wasn't going to work out.

Dave has more issues with me than I have with him, and that makes it really difficult. Mostly because he just refuses to communicate and that makes it really, really hard to work with someone, especially when you should we working towards the same goals. Unfortunately, it often becomes all about Dave instead of working towards the goals.
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Postby SombreroFallout » Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:28 pm

AlphaLiberal wrote:Signs point to "no." Here are a few things he needs to work on to be a decent candidate:

a) Loosen up. Dude's pretty uptight and loses bigly to Mayor Dave in the likeability column. Surgery is recommended to get the stick removed. Or make it a strength, somehow.

b) Get a plan. A campaign based on streetcars will get traction with about 3.7% of the electorate. How will you attract the other 47% you will need to prevail?

c) Drop the personal pique. If he is really mad at Dave Cieslewicz because Dave didn't hire him, why should any voter care? For most people such alleged pettiness and arrogance is reason enough NOT to vote for someone.

d) Peter, you've told us what you do not stand for. You do not stand for light rail, you do not stand for a Mayor having ideas and trying to get them implemented. So, what do you stand for?


Yes, yes. No ad hominem content there. The irony & hypocrisy of you accusing others of irony & hypocrisy. Puts a nice period at the end of that angle, thank you.

The rest is decent advice--advice you & Mayor Dave should take to heart. Where's you constructive approach? Seems like you're continuing to push the meme. Wonder how that'll go over among all the folks on the fence. And whether it's 3.7% due to the streetcar or more, how's that compare to the needed margin for victory? Add in IZ pique, etc., and recheck the picture. You've got Daisy sowing rancor and division among nomiinal allies. And progressives VERY unsure that Mayor Dave's supposed "city ethic" will come through for them in substance. Gotta deliver the bacon, or deliver larger, complementary carrots to folks on both sides of some of these tough choices. I'm more likely to back Dave, but I'm just saying is that really the way it'll pan out, come votin time? GEt it?
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Postby Donald » Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:02 pm

Right now my vote goes to Munoz. Dave's cave on the lobbying issue and his trolley fetish really burn me. We'll see where Munoz wants to take the city. My vote may change.
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Postby white_rabbit » Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:24 pm

I hope Munoz puts up a website soon, so I can learn more of his positions. If he says the right things, then he also earns a volunteer.
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Postby gargantua » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:30 pm

white_rabbit wrote:I hope Munoz puts up a website soon, so I can learn more of his positions. If he says the right things, then he also earns a volunteer.


And when he does, he better hire locally to do it, right? :wink:
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Postby Mister_A_In_Madison » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:24 am

AlphaLiberal wrote:And, to clarify, when I referred to being a ncie guy, I was referring to having a friendly demeanor versus doing whatever others want him to do. My reference is to retail politics and ability to win, which seems to be the focus of the thread.


So, you would prefer someone that pretends to gather public input and does what he wants anyway?
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Postby Dulouz » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:32 am

Mister_A_In_Madison wrote:
AlphaLiberal wrote:And, to clarify, when I referred to being a ncie guy, I was referring to having a friendly demeanor versus doing whatever others want him to do. My reference is to retail politics and ability to win, which seems to be the focus of the thread.


So, you would prefer someone that pretends to gather public input and does what he wants anyway?


You can also spin it that someone has their mind made up, but gives people the opportunity to change it. That was held up as a paragon of virtue to me in high school when we studied Lincoln and (by reference) Kennedy. It was considered a sign of leadership for the executive to elicit comments but hold their own counsel.
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Postby Mister_A_In_Madison » Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:14 am

Dulouz wrote:
Mister_A_In_Madison wrote:
AlphaLiberal wrote:And, to clarify, when I referred to being a ncie guy, I was referring to having a friendly demeanor versus doing whatever others want him to do. My reference is to retail politics and ability to win, which seems to be the focus of the thread.


So, you would prefer someone that pretends to gather public input and does what he wants anyway?


You can also spin it that someone has their mind made up, but gives people the opportunity to change it. That was held up as a paragon of virtue to me in high school when we studied Lincoln and (by reference) Kennedy. It was considered a sign of leadership for the executive to elicit comments but hold their own counsel.


That would be fine... if the Mayor had a better reputation for actually listening to people (City Council members included) rather than pretending to be a nice guy and pretending to listen.
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Postby AlphaLiberal » Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:45 pm

I agree with Dulouz here. Anyone who approaches these issues as Mayor with no opinions or ideas should be crossed off the list of contenders.

And, I don't think Dave C "pretends" to be a nice guy. He is. Wouldn't doubt Munoz is, also, once he gives people the chance to meet him.
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Postby Mister_A_In_Madison » Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:03 pm

AlphaLiberal wrote:And, I don't think Dave C "pretends" to be a nice guy.


That is open to debate, as what constitutes a "nice guy" is fairly subjective I should think.
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