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Free Tuition to UW Non-Resident Students Based on Race?

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Free Tuition to UW Non-Resident Students Based on Race?

Postby HooferX » Sun May 20, 2007 9:35 pm

Time to rake the mudd a bit among ye racial programmers who trample the 14th Amendment! ;)

If you support Affirmative Action, please articulate how Wisconsin families specifically benefit from UW waiving hundreds of thousands of dollars yearly in lost tuition for non-resident students, most of whom immediately leave Wisconsin after graduating, ne'er to return. Please avoid the bigger debate about ever using race in admissions. Instead, address this: Why shouldn't those admitted through Affirmative Action pay anything at all for their valuable education?

Please explain if I am just misreading the following article factually. LEO students pay no tuition and UW Law School makes a student's racial status a quality necessary to be admitted to LEO, to get this free tuition. Is this correct? :)

http://www.madison.com/tct/news/stories/index.php?ntid=135288

"Today, financial aid -- and admission to the Law School -- are separate from the LEO program. The non-resident tuition of $30,817 this year -- compared to $12,654 for residents -- is waived for LEO students, he said, and some state scholarship funds are earmarked for disadvantaged students."
Last edited by HooferX on Thu May 31, 2007 4:33 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Free Tuition to UW Law School for Non-Residents

Postby universitylad » Sun May 20, 2007 9:49 pm

HooferX wrote:

http://www.madison.com/tct/news/stories/index.php?ntid=135288

"Today, financial aid -- and admission to the Law School -- are separate from the LEO program. The non-resident tuition of $30,817 this year -- compared to $12,654 for residents -- is waived for LEO students, he said, and some state scholarship funds are earmarked for disadvantaged students."



What do the multicoloured stoles represent on the graduates in the photo in the article? A family member of mine graduated from the UW and I noticed a fair number of graduates with similar stoles, but I could not figure out what they represented. No mention was made of these types of stoles in the program.
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Postby ShaneDog » Mon May 21, 2007 12:28 am

So a few black students get full ride scholarships and you are upset about that?
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Postby Like_Stink » Mon May 21, 2007 9:00 am

Well, I am past fifty with a masters degree and reasonably high income, yet I can go to the UW for free – including, should I desire a second-career, four years of medical school. This, because 35 years ago I spend a few years in the military. Explain how this benefits the people of Wisconsin.

[my undergrad and graduate school were funded through veteran's programs, so it's not like I was deprived.]
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Postby universitylad » Mon May 21, 2007 9:11 am

Like_Stink wrote:Well, I am past fifty with a masters degree and reasonably high income, yet I can go to the UW for free – including, should I desire a second-career, four years of medical school. This, because 35 years ago I spend a few years in the military. Explain how this benefits the people of Wisconsin.

[my undergrad and graduate school were funded through veteran's programs, so it's not like I was deprived.]


I didn't think the current veteran's programs were quite so generous with funding completely free tuition. Is this from the GI bill or another type of scholarship from the UW? Were you grandfathered in under an earlier program? Would there be strings attached to having your medical school paid for? The military scholarhips for health professional students I have looked into do pay for one's schooling and give a stipend, but you must rank military residencies ahead of civilian residencies in the "match" and one needs to work one year for the military for each year of funding that was provided. I don't think they were veteran's scholarships specifically though. Can you fill us in more on the specifics of the funding?
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Postby Like_Stink » Mon May 21, 2007 10:24 am

universitylad wrote:
Like_Stink wrote:Well, I am past fifty with a masters degree and reasonably high income, yet I can go to the UW for free – including, should I desire a second-career, four years of medical school. This, because 35 years ago I spend a few years in the military. Explain how this benefits the people of Wisconsin.

[my undergrad and graduate school were funded through veteran's programs, so it's not like I was deprived.]


I didn't think the current veteran's programs were quite so generous with funding completely free tuition. Is this from the GI bill or another type of scholarship from the UW? Were you grandfathered in under an earlier program? Would there be strings attached to having your medical school paid for? The military scholarhips for health professional students I have looked into do pay for one's schooling and give a stipend, but you must rank military residencies ahead of civilian residencies in the "match" and one needs to work one year for the military for each year of funding that was provided. I don't think they were veteran's scholarships specifically though. Can you fill us in more on the specifics of the funding?


Thirty + years ago, when a person from Wisconsin returned from military service, they received federal GI Bill (somewhere around $300 a month) and a grant from the state for $100 a semester. If you went part-time, federal GI Bill was prorated, but you could receive a state grant that paid most of your tuition.

Currently, I’m not clear on the extent of the federal GI Bill – I know it exists, but I don’t know how much it pays. The full-time and part-time grants to veterans rose over the years to the point where they covered the entire tuition bill for most, depending on where you went to school.

All of these benefits have limitations based on either time since service, income, educational attainment, etc.

But………now………in an effort to shift costs from a Veterans Trust Fund run into the ground through mismanagement, legislation passed two years ago in a time (a time not yet passed) when the word ‘veteran’ in a bill virtually guaranteed passage, provided for 50% remission of all tuition and fees for veterans (active duty) who enlisted from Wisconsin at all UW System schools and all state technical colleges. In the fall of 2007, this 50% remission will rise to 100%. This 100% remission (ie. the only remaining cost to a student is books, etc., there is no tuition and fee bill) has only one stipulation – it is only good for 128 credits. There is no income cap for the veteran, there is no education cap and there is no time limit. All veterans from Wisconsin, regardless of income, educational attainment or the amount of benefits used in the past are eligible at any point in their life. Literally, you could have gone through your undergraduate and graduate programs using veterans benefits, worked until retirement and decide upon retirement that you would like a second career in medicine. Four years of medical school (if you’re admitted, of course) will be free.

It’s a good deal for vets, that’s for sure. The funding is simple – tuition from other students will increase to cover the costs. The program was not funded, so the UW eats it.

This legislation was passed to shift the burden from the ailing Veterans Trust Fund to the UW. It was “for the veterans.â€Â
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Re: Free Tuition to UW Law School for Non-Residents

Postby missmadtown » Mon May 21, 2007 12:25 pm

universitylad wrote: What do the multicoloured stoles represent on the graduates in the photo in the article? A family member of mine graduated from the UW and I noticed a fair number of graduates with similar stoles, but I could not figure out what they represented. No mention was made of these types of stoles in the program.


Here is your answer:
http://www.primeheritage.com/default.asp

A stole used to have to be earned. Now you can buy one.
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Postby dudemeister » Mon May 21, 2007 2:03 pm

I agree, in general, with affirmative action to redress in some way the institutionalized racism that exists. However, I've always wondered what constitutes evidence for the claim that I am a minority?

I'm not trying to be disingenuous -- I'd like to know.

Is it how you look? How you identify yourself? Can anyone just go ahead and claim to be a black african american? What if you're one of the many white african americans or an ethnically middle-eastern african american? What box do you check and is it legal and/or ethical?

What if you're a 15th generation descendant of a Native American slave brought to Spain in the 16th century - are you white, Hispanic, Native American, European, or Spanish?

When you move to America from Kenya, say, have you sufficiently suffered from racism to immediately qualify for affirmative action?

Should there be genetic racial heredity testing? If I get my heredity tested and find out I have African ancestry (which I would not be particularly surprised at) then do I count as a minority?

I had a friend back in college who you'd never think was any blacker than I am. People would look at her family picture and ask "who's that guy?" referring to her very obviously african-american father. She was quite clearly a minority -- so is it percentage based then? What % counts then?

Using genetics, heredity and percentages for affirmative action seems like an idea that belongs in the historical dump heap (along with phrenology and other silliness).
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Postby Michael Patrick » Mon May 21, 2007 2:29 pm

dudemeister wrote:Using genetics, heredity and percentages for affirmative action seems like an idea that belongs in the historical dump heap (along with phrenology and other silliness).


Have you seen the shape of my head? I deserve, nay, DEMAND free tuition for life.
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PUBLIC universities

Postby sdh » Tue May 22, 2007 10:26 pm

Everyone pays taxes regardless of race. But not everyone gets into the PUBLIC university that their taxes are paying for. The University of Wisconsin is exists to serve all of the citizens of the state. Not just the white ones.
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Re: PUBLIC universities

Postby jimoo » Wed May 23, 2007 8:05 am

sdh wrote:Everyone pays taxes regardless of race. But not everyone gets into the PUBLIC university that their taxes are paying for. The University of Wisconsin is exists to serve all of the citizens of the state. Not just the white ones.



No one said it does or it should. Just that perhaps it shouldn't show favoritism or preference based on skin color.
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Keeping on Point: How should this be paid for?

Postby HooferX » Wed May 23, 2007 7:01 pm

It is easy to stray into the larger debate over Affirmative Action, as these last posts show. Again, I am not asking about Affirmative Action in admissions to public universities.

My question is this:
How does UW-Madison justify expending public Wisconsin dollars on free tuition for students not from Wisconsin admitted to the LEO program, based on their race alone? For example, why are Wisconsin taxpayers paying for free tuition to their public university for students from New York, New Jersey or Illinois, and then only for those of a race that qualifies them to be admitted to the LEO program the Capital Times article describes? I mean, this is not about the use of race in admissions decisions; it is about using race exclusively to decide who receives direct, public financial assistance, is it not?
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Re: Keeping on Point: How should this be paid for?

Postby white_rabbit » Wed May 23, 2007 8:05 pm

HooferX wrote:My question is this: [/b] How does UW-Madison justify expending public Wisconsin dollars on free tuition for students not from Wisconsin admitted to the LEO program, based on their race alone?


I have no problem with tuition programs for minorities. But, in my opinion, anyone who is given a free ride scholarship (no matter what it's for: education, medicine, law, nursing, etc) should be required to spend atleast 3-4 years working in the state for a nonprofit or government agency. For example, a student who is given free tuition to law school for three years should be obligated to work as a public defender in the state of Wisconsin for a minimum of three years or be required to pay back the tuition.
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Re: Keeping on Point: How should this be paid for?

Postby mrak » Wed May 23, 2007 8:21 pm

white_rabbit wrote:But, in my opinion, anyone who is given a free ride scholarship (no matter what it's for: education, medicine, law, nursing, etc) should be required to spend atleast 3-4 years working in the state...

Someone should create a TV show based on that premise.
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