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Greens offer advice, but old false claims linger

Please limit discussion in this area to local and state politics.

Do you think Greens should admit they were wrong to say Gore and Bush were no different?

Yes, after all, they claim to set a higher standard and trot out new claims for us to believe.
25
76%
No, being Green means never having to say you're sorry.
8
24%
 
Total votes : 33

Re: Outting the local Green electeds

Postby True Blue » Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:07 pm

Dodge wrote:Current Green Party elected officials (which is to say party members, endorsed by the party, and publically identifying with the party - all three) in Madison include:

Ald. Konkel, Benford, King
Sup. Matano, Vedder, Hendrick, Richmond
Sch. Bd. Vang

Past include: Sentmanat, Vedder, Jarrell, Powell, Zipperer (yup), and Szwaja.

. . . Think they're better than the average pol? If so, vote "Yes!"

Fine people (far as I know). All. And all very different from both Gore and Bush!

(I wonder if they would answer the question?)
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Re: Outting the local Green electeds

Postby Marge » Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:24 pm

Dodge wrote: . . . Think they're better than the average pol? If so, vote "Yes!"

Except that the poll question is actually "Do you think Greens should admit they were wrong to say Gore and Bush were no different?" Which is an entirely different question than whether they're better than the average pol.
Shifty wrote:Damn, I thought the poll was on the original question. One less "YES" vote, one more "NO reason to apologize" vote if you please.

I agree with Shifty, the question was confusing.
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Postby TrevorJames » Tue Sep 23, 2003 8:15 pm

I am so very tired of the Greens and the way they helped to secure the election for Bush. In all of their tirades against government and the two party system could Ben or any of the others ever have dreamed it could be so awful because of their actions? They should all be shamed into shutting up! They delivered to America Bush, :!: Ashcroft and dead children in Iraq! Enough said.
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Postby Shifty » Tue Sep 23, 2003 8:31 pm

I am so very tired of the Democrats and the way they helped to secure the election for Bush. In all of their tirades against government and the multi party system could Gore, the DLC, the congressman who voted for the war and the Patriot Act, or any of the others ever have dreamed it could be so awful because of their actions? They should all be shamed into shutting up! They delivered to America Bush, :!: Ashcroft and dead children in Iraq! Enough said.
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Postby Donna Summer » Tue Sep 23, 2003 9:41 pm

Shifty wrote:
Here's some questions for you: were the Democrats correct to support the Patriot Act?

Were Clinton/Gore right on NAFTA and the WTO?

Were a majority of Dem senators and over 40% of total Dems in Congress--including several Dem prez candidates--right to authorize the war in Iraq?


Hold on there Shifty.

Lieberman, Kerry, Gephardt & Edwards voted for these.
Congressman Kucinich DID NOT SUPPORT the so-called 'Patriot act', the only one running who voted AGAINST it. Against the war too.

I know you didn't accuse him of it, but just thought I'd point that out. :lol:

Carry on.
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Leave those Greens alone!

Postby Rush Limbaugh » Wed Sep 24, 2003 1:14 pm

So the Greens used false claims in their campaigning? So what? That's how politics is. All it means is that Greens want to win in the worse way.
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Postby Shifty » Wed Sep 24, 2003 1:17 pm

Donna Summer wrote:
I know you didn't accuse him of it, but just thought I'd point that out. :lol:

Carry on.


And it is differently a point in his favor.
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Re: Outting the local Green electeds

Postby Paco » Wed Sep 24, 2003 5:02 pm

Dodge wrote:Current Green Party elected officials (which is to say party members, endorsed by the party, and publically identifying with the party - all three) in Madison include:

Ald. Konkel, Benford, King
Sup. Matano, Vedder, Hendrick, Richmond
Sch. Bd. Vang

Past include: Sentmanat, Vedder, Jarrell, Powell, Zipperer (yup), and Szwaja.

. . . Think they're better than the average pol? If so, vote "Yes!"

When I hear these mentioned, I think 'Progressive Dane', not Green Party.
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Re: Outting the local Green electeds

Postby Dodge » Wed Sep 24, 2003 5:11 pm

Paco wrote:
Dodge wrote:Current Green Party elected officials (which is to say party members, endorsed by the party, and publically identifying with the party - all three) in Madison include:

Ald. Konkel, Benford, King
Sup. Matano, Vedder, Hendrick, Richmond
Sch. Bd. Vang

Past include: Sentmanat, Vedder, Jarrell, Powell, Zipperer (yup), and Szwaja.

. . . Think they're better than the average pol? If so, vote "Yes!"

When I hear these mentioned, I think 'Progressive Dane', not Green Party.


That's understandable. The local media doesn't seem to be aware that there is a local Green Party (despite all efforts otherwise). That said, most of the above are and long have been activie in the Greens. Some of them are officers of the party right now. Some of them joined the Greens well before getting involved with PD. We call 'em Green Progressives, and with the exception of a couple great PD electeds who are not (yet) Greens, they are the cream of the crop, in my opinion.
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they say you can get a poll to say anything . . .

Postby Dodge » Fri Sep 26, 2003 10:42 am

but i never saw a poll before where you can change the questions after they've been answered . . . how convenient.
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Re: they say you can get a poll to say anything . . .

Postby True Blue » Fri Sep 26, 2003 11:54 am

Dodge wrote:but i never saw a poll before where you can change the questions after they've been answered . . . how convenient.

Why do you say that? That didn't happen here. I put a question in the title of the thread. that confused people who didn't read the actual poll question carefully. An understandable confusion.

But, I did not change the poll questions or answers after the fact and I did not intend to confuse.

p.s. I'm disappointed that no Green here (or anywhere else, apparently) has the guts to say "yes, we put out a false message in 2000 and we will learn from that experience." Instead, it's just the typical denial and attacks that we see from the major parties.

Meet the new (would-be) boss, same as the old boss.
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Re: they say you can get a poll to say anything . . .

Postby True Blue » Fri Sep 26, 2003 12:03 pm

Dodge wrote:but i never saw a poll before where you can change the questions after they've been answered . . . how convenient.

OK. I changed the thread title to remove the question. The poll, however, has not been changed. The software does not allow polls to be changed after the fact.

I think most responders got the question right.
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Postby True Blue » Fri Sep 26, 2003 12:07 pm

TrevorJames wrote:I am so very tired of the Greens and the way they helped to secure the election for Bush. In all of their tirades against government and the two party system could Ben or any of the others ever have dreamed it could be so awful because of their actions? They should all be shamed into shutting up! They delivered to America Bush, :!: Ashcroft and dead children in Iraq! Enough said.

Apparently, Greens will never admit mistake. Most Democrats I know admit to the warts on the Democratic Party and try to fix them. Greens deny, deny, deny and then attack Democrats. There's probably no use trying to reason with them.
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Postby Wesmon » Sat Sep 27, 2003 3:54 am

Your contempt for democracy shows through quite well.

Apparently, in your mind, anyone running for office against the 2 corporate parties is somehow a liar. And you blame the Greens for attracting votes when you should be blaming the democrats for failing to appeal to these voters. The democratic party could be reaching out to potential greens and trying to build a coalition but instead all I see is excuses and the shifting of blame by the democrats.

Keep it up and you will insure another loss in 2004.

The idea in a democracy is to vote for someone who represents your beliefs, not to just vote for someone you think will win. And as the greens continue to gather support they will have more of effect on the political process. The whining by the democrats who have abandoned their traditional voter base but still express shock when the voters go elsewhere is proof positive that the greens are having an effect.
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Postby white_rabbit » Sat Sep 27, 2003 9:01 am

Wesmon wrote:
Keep it up and you will insure another loss in 2004.



So do you take pleasure in being the spoiler? Do you wish to hold the Dem's hostage to the Greens 1 or 2%? I thought the Greens are not one bit culpable for Bush?

This Democrat has said time and again it is foolish to blame the Greens for Bush. However, I do take exception to the statement that there is no difference between Gore and Bush, which was the mantra of the Greens in the last election. This time, if I hear one Green say there is no difference between the Democrat and Bush they will face my ire, and possibly a bitch slap or two.

The biggest threat to the enviroment, the working poor, world peace and civil liberties is currently residing at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave and everyone concerned about these issues, whether they be Independent, Republican, Democrat, Libertarian or Green should work together to elect the candidate with the best chance to get him out of there.
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