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The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

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The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

Postby swimmingupstream » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:36 pm

The current members of the City of Madison Landmarks Commission, most who have served on it for years, have turned it into an utter joke.
http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/g ... 002e0.html
Where is Paul Soglin in all of this? I don't want to hear from the mayor any more about the budget shortfall when the city continues to turn away $100,000,000.00 projects because a few goofballs on the Landmarks Commission and the Urban Design Commission want their pet ideas taken seriously. You can't create jobs in Madison and expand the tax base by willy-nilly turning away good development projects. That is why I and many companies now live and work in Verona.
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Re: The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

Postby gargantua » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:18 pm

Did you READ the article? For those who don't have time, like the OP evidently, they HAVEN'T GIVEN IT LANDMARK status. The chairman said they probably won't.

I think the real joke is Swimmie's reading comprehension.
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Re: The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

Postby swimmingupstream » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:53 pm

The Landmarks Commission is going to delay the University Crossing project for six weeks so that it can engage its collective ego in an academic exercise. Meanwhile this project will not be allowed to break ground this year and who knows if UW Clinic and the project lenders will be around next spring.

The person doing the redevelopment said according to the article the "additional time and money needed to fight a landmark designation will make it even harder to bring the University Crossing proposal to reality." (But is that not the whole point?)

It is Gargantua who needs to work on his/her reading comprehension and analytical skills.
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Re: The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

Postby swimmingupstream » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:00 pm

Also Paul Soglin took the unprecedented step and appointed Near East Side Alder Marsha Rummel to the Landmarks Commission, the Urban Design Commission and the Plan Commission. I believe she is the first person to serve on all three at the same time. She was the Landmarks member who pushed this six week delay.

The question is why does Paul Soglin hate expanding Madison's tax base during these tough economic times?
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Re: The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

Postby rabble » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:05 pm

swimmingupstream wrote:Also Paul Soglin took the unprecedented step and appointed Near East Side Alder Marsha Rummel to the Landmarks Commission, the Urban Design Commission and the Plan Commission. I believe she is the first person to serve on all three at the same time. She was the Landmarks member who pushed this six week delay.

The question is why does Paul Soglin hate expanding Madison's tax base during these tough economic times?

If Marsha's pushing for a delay, I'm behind it. This is beginning to sound like a "we give you some money now, then we leave you hanging high and dry and by the way you'll be paying for this forever" sort of deal.

You got any links to Marsha's side of the story? She's usually pretty good about putting all her reasons up front.
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Re: The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

Postby snoqueen » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:17 pm

Both Landmarks and Urban Design are doing what they were appointed to do. It's always a subjective process -- a discussion of taste and the art of architecture.

To get all incensed because they're doing their job is misplaced. If you don't like the way they do their job -- for instance, if you'd prefer everything look like a Motel 6, or if you think nothing built before 1932 should be taken down ever ever -- that's a longer discussion.

I believe the idea the Marshall Erdman building could deserve landmark designation has enough merit to schedule another meeting, which is what's been done. The single photo floating around the newspapers doesn't show much, but the building in question is a reasonably interesting and substantial midcentury office-type structure with some inharmonious paint and possible later remodeling. If I can get some better pictures one of these days I'll post them -- it's hard to photograph. Its history as home of FLW's construction partners is substantiated, not imaginary.

What I believe does NOT have merit is the idea nothing at all can be done with that entire site if the office building is designated landmark. That's like letting Eric Cantor write your budget. Good architects and planners work with this kind of requirement every day, and make existing buildings an asset or feature in a new design. It is part of any architect's training to do so.

For example, Madison asked Cesar Pelli to design an arts palace around a couple old building fronts (with little historic value, by the way) and an old existing theater and he came up with a workable plan many people like.
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Re: The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

Postby indycoyote » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:30 pm

I support the rights of citizens to ask the Landmarks folks to review a situation. In this case, I don't personally feel that Marshall Erdman's space deserves any special status. I'm betting the Landmarks folks don't give it Landmark Status. Much better idea to bring in the wrecking crew...but we have ordinances for a reason. Breaking ground 6 weeks later than expected ain't no big deal. Delays are part if the development and construction industry.
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Re: The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

Postby swimmingupstream » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:48 pm

snoqueen wrote:For example, Madison asked Cesar Pelli to design an arts palace around a couple old building fronts (with little historic value, by the way) and an old existing theater and he came up with a workable plan many people like.

This is a foolish example for you to use. It was the LANDMARKS COMMISSION who forced internationally renowned arcitect Cesar Pelli to incorporate what even you call old building fronts with little historic value. His team also faced "design by committee" behavior in front of the Urban Design Commission. At some point Pelli said screw it and turned the project over to some of his junior associates telling them to give the yokels what they want.
Madison got a very nice building but Milwaukee got an instant landmark in their Art Museum.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milwaukee_Art_Museum
Is it not a real shame that the Landmarks Commission fought tooth and nail to keep Madison from getting a truly world renowned landmark building?
Last edited by swimmingupstream on Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

Postby swimmingupstream » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:53 pm

indycoyote wrote: Breaking ground 6 weeks later than expected ain't no big deal.

Of course you know better than the guy quoted in the newspaper who is actually going to be the person who create jobs and expands Madison's tax base.

If this project falters it will be a real black mark highlighting Soglin's lack of leadership in this critical time.
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Re: The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

Postby lukpac » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:05 pm

swimmingupstream wrote:If this project falters it will be a real black mark highlighting Soglin's lack of leadership in this critical time.


Umm...how?
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Re: The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

Postby swimmingupstream » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:12 pm

rabble wrote: You got any links to Marsha's side of the story? She's usually pretty good about putting all her reasons up front.

It can be found here
http://legistar.cityofmadison.com/detai ... ?key=25853
It is process over outcomes. Though a year long process was already followed including Landmarks already previously voting in support of the demolition. The outcome that she is ignoring is job creation and expanding the tax base. BTW, the Landmarks staff person strongly recommended to the commission that they don't unfairly delay this project. They chose to blow her off.
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Re: The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

Postby swimmingupstream » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:13 pm

lukpac wrote:
swimmingupstream wrote:If this project falters it will be a real black mark highlighting Soglin's lack of leadership in this critical time.


Umm...how?

Umm...where is Soggy? Hiding under his desk?
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Re: The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

Postby lukpac » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:14 pm

swimmingupstream wrote:Umm...where is Soggy? Hiding under his desk?


What exactly is he supposed to be doing?
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Re: The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

Postby swimmingupstream » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:33 pm

lukpac wrote:What exactly is he supposed to be doing?

Leading?

He could publicly say that "this $100 million project is important to creating jobs and economic opportunity in Madison."

He could publicly say that "for the Landmarks Commission to engage in a six week academic exercise that even its chair guarantees will go nowhere is just not acceptable during these economic times."

He could publicly say "this kind of insular behavior will scare off the good projects like University Crossing that we so desperately need right now." (You do remember that Soglin has been saying in every microphone he can stand in front of over the past four months that we are in a fiscal crisis, don't you?)
Last edited by swimmingupstream on Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

Postby other i » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:35 pm

Assertions to challenge in the ongoing story regarding this development.
"increasing the tax base"
"creating 700 NEW jobs"

And then there's the possibly nasty business about the possible chromium infiltration.
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