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Gun Mania

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Gun Mania

Postby AaronTheSnob » Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:26 am

I won't deny for a minute that I don't even remotely understand America's fascination with guns. It boggles my mind, frankly. Particularly, in the hate-filled political (and social) environment we are currently experiencing, the idea of people walking all around me carrying weapons is unnerving, at best.

I recently finished the late Joe Bageant's book "Rainbow Pie: A Redneck Memoir". Bageant, if you are not familiar with him, described himself frankly as a "redneck liberal", having grown up dirt-poor in the mountain communities of Virgina and West Virginia. His political philosophies, evolved over time, certainly differed from the vast majority of his family, friends and acquaintances from his hometown, and his analyses of why the way they think the way they do are fascinating and most likely very on the mark.

This, from his latest book, sums up Bageant's feeling about guns in today's society and reflects much better than I could my own views on the subject:

"I havae rattled on at length about underclass political consciousness, especially at town hall meetings, because they represent a new development in which the white underclass plays a pivotal role. It feels to me like a build-up to an incitement of violence--if not now, then someday not far off--that will either be purposefully managed or will erupt spontaneously. There is an odor of fascism and nascent brownshirts about. A look around these meetings, for instance, will often reveal a firearm--not as a bulge under a coat or jacket, but worn openly on the hip or in a shoulder-belt holster. This is by no means illegall if the wearer has a weapons permit; guns are openly worn in this state (West Virginia) and in many of the heartland realms I travel. I grew up accustomed to seeing guns and seldom found it disconcerting. Until now. There is some new dimension to the presence of handguns at these public events, which are allegedly dedicated to civil public discourse. Until 2009, I never saw a gun worn at a public meeting or civic gathering. People with weapons permeits have always considered such behavior inappropriate and the sign of a boob. But now these guns in public view give me the willies.

...Ostensibly, the guns are a display of Second Amendment rights--the right to bear arms. But there is a lack of nonchalance in the way they are worn now, an in-your-face quality to the way they are displayed. Exactly who are the guns supposed to scare? I don't know--liberals, I suppose..."

Sorry for the long post, but when I read that, it resonated greatly with me. I thought of those five guys who traipsed into Culver's last year with their guns, for no apparent reason other than the fact that "they could" and obviously to get a reaction. And they were successful.


"
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby other i » Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:45 am

I don't mind openly worn guns. But I do think they make less of a fashion statement than some of the wearers hope. I always think those cartridge belts across the chest are much more rakish and they "work" better with your other apparel - spring OR fall (except maybe a suit).

But I've always been amazed at the the belief that a gun could protect one from the ravages of a government (or some other large powerful entity) gone wild. I've always thought that a sense of collective class solidarity could do more for those occasions.
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby rabble » Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:02 am

I've read several of his articles but hadn't heard he had passed away.

Nuts. Aside from the fact that he was a good man who should have lived a longer life, we've lost another voice of reason. There just aren't many people with that combination of brains plus writing skills out there.
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby AaronTheSnob » Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:44 am

I can't help but see that many of the responses in the "boozeland" thread seem to validate Bageant's remarks.
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby Beaver » Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:51 am

And so it begins. For only $197 gun nuts can get concealed carry training in the Madison area.

http://wiconcealedcarrytraining.com/
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby snoqueen » Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:53 am

I already got a couple pieces of junk mail (postal mail) advertising gun classes. They're holding them in hotel meeting rooms. I would think prospective attendees would rather go to class at a firing range where they could get actual gun experience. Otherwise you might as well take an internet class.
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby Leslyn Erickson » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:47 am

Does it matter? As the cosponsor of the legislation said (I forget his name, it only comes back to me in nightmares), we need guns to protect our families when outside airports and at the BratFest. Seriously, who needs training for that? Just blow them all away and let God sort 'em out. It was only the liberals (sorry, dirty word), who forced training into the bill anyway.
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby Dangerousman » Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:57 pm

Leslyn Erickson wrote:Does it matter? As the cosponsor of the legislation said (I forget his name, it only comes back to me in nightmares), we need guns to protect our families when outside airports and at the BratFest. Seriously, who needs training for that? Just blow them all away and let God sort 'em out. It was only the liberals (sorry, dirty word), who forced training into the bill anyway.


And which liberals would that have been? Scott Walker who said the bill ought to have a training requirement? Or, Jeff Fitzgerald, who wouldn't let a bill without licensing and training get introduced into the Assembly?

The Republicans could have passed absolutely any type of concealed carry bill they wanted, and in the end they did. It's true a number of Democrats voted in favor of the bill, including some who spoke against it*, but when it came to drafting the legislation it was all done by Republicans. Amendments that were offered by Democrats were voted down. So it would be interesting to hear your explanation of how "liberals" forced training into the bill. People who were advocating "constitutional carry" don't credit, or blame, liberals for the training requirement, they blame the Fitzwalkers and Walker.

I've said it before, the training requirement is pretty much a joke. I'm not saying training is a joke, it's not. But any concealed carry law that sets the threshold so low that a hunters education certificate suffices to meet the training requirement is giving little more than a wink and a nod to the idea of mandatory training.

* While Sen. Erpenbach took a lead role in the debate speaking against the bill, and voted against it. He also stated that he would probably get a concealed carry license when it passed. I don't about you, but that sounds like hypocrisy to me.
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby Leslyn Erickson » Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:17 pm

No hypocrisy involved. When your world is in an arms race, do you walk around naked just because you failed at disarmament?
As you acknowledged, the R's wrote the "training" requirement into the bill. That's why it has no teeth. :shock:
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby Dangerousman » Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:04 pm

Leslyn Erickson wrote:No hypocrisy involved. When your world is in an arms race, do you walk around naked just because you failed at disarmament?
As you acknowledged, the R's wrote the "training" requirement into the bill. That's why it has no teeth. :shock:


Sen. Erpenbach would be "in an arms race" with whom?

Criminals? Well, if so, then he should have acknowledged the need for a CCW bill, rather than saying there's no need for it.

The law-abiding people who pass a criminal records check and get a license? Then that's just paranoia.

I'd still be interested in an explanation of your original comment that "liberals" forced the training requirement into the bill. Or have you changed your mind about that?
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:03 pm

Hey Dman, where were you around 3 pm today?

Just wonderin'.
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby Dangerousman » Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:08 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Hey Dman, where were you around 3 pm today?

Just wonderin'.


At home working as usual. Why?
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:22 pm

Dangerousman wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Hey Dman, where were you around 3 pm today?

Just wonderin'.


At home working as usual. Why?

Since concealed carry is yet to be legal, but open carry is... and you profess to do so frequently, I was just curious.
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby Dangerousman » Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:14 pm

That story isn't very specific. I'm probably a couple of miles from those schools and wouldn't have much reason to be in the area. The only place in that vicinity I go on a semi-regular basis is the Walgreens at the corner of Pflaum and Monona Drive.

Nothing in that article explains just why they felt a need for a school lockdown. You'd think there would have to be some suspicious or criminal activity, but none is described in the story so your guess is as good as mine.
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby jonnygothispen » Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:25 pm

Because possibly paranoid people carrying guns near schools in broad daylight aren't Dangerous, man.
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