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Man Dumps Beer On State Lawmaker

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Re: Man Dumps Beer On State Lawmaker

Postby jjoyce » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:11 am

I was sick as a dog on Friday and therefore confined to my couch watching POV on public television instead of doing something fun on Friday night.

http://video.pbs.org/video/2122024902

It's really a nice piece and explains a lot about not just the ELF and its principles but also about activism and radicalism. The ELF burned the offices of polluters and blockaded logging roads with a specific goal in mind and they were effective.

Guys like Miles Kristan are not in the same league, although they'd like to portray themselves as activists and maybe even radicals. The act of dumping a beer on Robin Vos' head has no effect other than to:

- Harm the reputation of anti-Walker protesters in the eyes of moderate voters in the state who are crucial if the Democrats hope to turn the Republicans' overreaching into an advantage at the polls.

- Strengthening the resolve of some powerful Republican legislators who not only believe that their anti-Madison policies (yes, the refusal of paying Madison cops back makes this policy now) are justified, but effective.

The actions of the ELF may have been drastic and wildly unpopular, even to other environmentalists, but at least they succeeded in stopping corporations and other organizations from doing harm to their cause.

Has Miles done a single thing to stop Vos and his peers from checking off each and every item from their agenda? Has he been effective in even one instance?
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Re: Man Dumps Beer On State Lawmaker

Postby lardheppus » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:36 am

Walter wrote:A disorderly conduct citation is the consequence this action would generate no matter where in the City of Madison or to whom it would occur. It's a $424 forfeiture. It is not even a criminal offense.


Since the legislature refuses to reimburse Madison and Dane County law enforcement, the above provides a means by which civic minded citizens may voluntarily help with the reimbursement. All they need do is pour a beer on a GOP legislator and pay the fine.

Since the amount to be reimbursed is rather large, it might take a few thousand beers.
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Re: Man Dumps Beer On State Lawmaker

Postby Walter » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:37 am

Aguynamedsmith wrote:So anyone who holds an opinion that is different than the one you hold is a crackpot?


Yes, if that opinion is in agreement with those who want to take away rights, reduce the standard of living, and generally turn back the clock on science, education, and health care. Birds of a feather Palin, Bachmann, Perry, Ryan, Fitzgerald, Walker, and Koch together.

Aguynamedsmith wrote:How can this city ever promote itself as a place of "tolerance" with a straight face? Madison tends to exhibit about the same level of tolerance for opposing points of view as the Taliban.


Yes, we cut the genitals off conservatives every Saturday at the Farmers Market. Did you just move to town or something?

Aguynamedsmith wrote:Disorderly conduct is the same behavior under city ordinance as it is under state statute. If he was charged under the state statute it would have been a criminal charge.


Adopting the same language as the state statute is what you mean. City DC is for behavior that doesn't rise to a level which is severe enough to likely be charged by the DA's Office. Anybody given a state DC charge for dumping a beer on someone's head would have it reduced to County DC or dropped altogether. Good job figuring out something not charged as a crime isn't a crime. I was afraid I was venturing into complex concepts the common man would find puzzling.

Aguynamedsmith wrote: But it is well known that Madison is trying to make money by charging under a local ordinances whenever possible so the forfeiture goes to the city.


Well, which way do you want it, Mr. Capitalism? I thought conservatives wanted government to be run like a business. So now you're against profit, you commie?

Aguynamedsmith wrote:
Walter wrote:
I'm sure if you had the beer dumped on you, you would have issued a municipal d/o/c citation right? Yeah, right. You would have been crying "felonious assault on a police officer."


Now you're just making up laws that don't exist in Wisconsin. Are you an out-of-state Flanders sock puppet?

Yeah, it's city ordinance disorderly conduct for a beer. I've been spit on while in uniform and charged the person state DC only because of the risk of disease transmittal from the saliva. And I didn't even cry.

In case you were wondering, the last time I cried at work was after I couldn't save the life of a 6 month old who was smothered to death. He and his mother slept together on a couch because she was too poor to afford a crib. The rest of the children used the two bedrooms. The mother rolled and trapped the baby so he couldn't breathe. I still remember every little detail about that call in that shitty, run down apartment on Tree Lane, including how soft his face was against mine as I did CPR. He'd probably been dead for hours but it was hard to tell since his mother's body heat kept him from getting cold and I wasn't just going to let him lay there on the living room floor while the family stood there looking at him.

I know this means nothing to you because those kind of people aren't job creators. Sorry to have wasted your valuable time and good day to you, Sir.
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Re: Man Dumps Beer On State Lawmaker

Postby bdog » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:29 pm

She got ya there smith.

"I'll see your disorderly conduct and raise you a dead infant!"

???
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Re: Man Dumps Beer On State Lawmaker

Postby David Blaska » Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:25 pm

jjoyce wrote:The ELF burned the offices of polluters and blockaded logging roads with a specific goal in mind and they were effective.

Guys like Miles Kristan are not in the same league, although they'd like to portray themselves as activists and maybe even radicals. ...
Has Miles done a single thing to stop Vos and his peers from checking off each and every item from their agenda? Has he been effective in even one instance?


Is that your prescription, Jason? Fire? Maybe burn them out of the Capitol? (Time to build a new one anyway.) Something more "effective" than Miller Lite?
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Re: Man Dumps Beer On State Lawmaker

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:47 pm

jjoyce wrote:The actions of the ELF may have been drastic and wildly unpopular, even to other environmentalists, but at least they succeeded in stopping corporations and other organizations from doing harm to their cause.


Wow. I mean, wow.
Someone who isn't obviously diametrically opposed to ELF's political and environmental beliefs needs to step up and say -- loudly and vehemently -- that there is nothing good about such an organization, so I guess I'll do it.
They are terrorists, plain and simple. The very notion that they've succeeded at anything except damaging the cause and reputation of those in the environmental movement who actually have morals is outrageous. Not only are their actions despicable, they're also fairly ignorant about real science and they have many times chosen targets which make absolutely no sense given their stated beliefs. I am truly flabbergasted by your post, joyce. You're veering dangerously into Flanders territory when you suggest -- even in such an uncommitted fashion -- that two wrongs somehow make a right. Ick.
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Re: Man Dumps Beer On State Lawmaker

Postby lardheppus » Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:56 pm

David Blaska wrote:
Is that your prescription, Jason? Fire? Maybe burn them out of the Capitol? (Time to build a new one anyway.) Something more "effective" than Miller Lite?


Are you suggesting flambeing republicans?

Image
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Re: Man Dumps Beer On State Lawmaker

Postby DCB » Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:30 pm

Walter wrote:
Aguynamedsmith wrote:How can this city ever promote itself as a place of "tolerance" with a straight face? Madison tends to exhibit about the same level of tolerance for opposing points of view as the Taliban.


Yes, we cut the genitals off conservatives every Saturday at the Farmers Market. Did you just move to town or something?

Notice any large Buddhist statues around town? No?

You're welcome.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0301-04.htm
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Re: Man Dumps Beer On State Lawmaker

Postby lardheppus » Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:29 pm

Walter wrote:Yes, we cut the genitals off conservatives every Saturday at the Farmers Market. Did you just move to town or something?


Not a big loss, they only use them at heavy petting zoos.
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Re: Man Dumps Beer On State Lawmaker

Postby Aguynamedsmith » Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:32 pm

Walter wrote:Now you're just making up laws that don't exist in Wisconsin.


Oh? I haven't "made up" 940.20(2)
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Re: Man Dumps Beer On State Lawmaker

Postby Aguynamedsmith » Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:33 pm

bdog wrote:She got ya there smith.

"I'll see your disorderly conduct and raise you a dead infant!"

???


Not really. Sad story, but an off-topic diversion.
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Re: Man Dumps Beer On State Lawmaker

Postby SimonBonadventure » Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:47 pm

GOD DAMN IT!

I Hate having to agree with that douche bag Blaska.

Why can't lefties wise up and figure out that the idiot that poured that beer over Vos' head hurts our cause?
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Re: Man Dumps Beer On State Lawmaker

Postby lukpac » Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:18 pm

Aguynamedsmith wrote:
Walter wrote:Now you're just making up laws that don't exist in Wisconsin.


Oh? I haven't "made up" 940.20(2)


Battery to law enforcement officers, fire fighters, and commission wardens. Whoever intentionally causes bodily harm to a law enforcement officer or fire fighter, as those terms are defined in s. 102.475 (8) (b) and (c), or to a commission warden, acting in an official capacity and the person knows or has reason to know that the victim is a law enforcement officer, fire fighter, or commission warden, by an act done without the consent of the person so injured, is guilty of a Class H felony.


Pouring beer on someone = bodily harm?
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Re: Man Dumps Beer On State Lawmaker

Postby Nick Berigan » Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:19 pm

I don't have a problem saying it regardless of who I might be agreeing with or offending. That was the wrong thing to do. A more damning charge than whatever the appropriate public nuisance charge is that is was totally reactive and tactically stupid.

I read some blog on the progressive that seemed to try to defend this due to the apparent pressure of those who are supposedly representing us all at the capitol in this time (as though that is some effective strategy we've all agreed on).

Nonsense. If maintaining a presence at the capitol is that wearing on someone, he or she should get the hell out of there.
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Re: Man Dumps Beer On State Lawmaker

Postby DCB » Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:47 pm

SimonBonadventure wrote:GOD DAMN IT!

I Hate having to agree with that douche bag Blaska.

Why can't lefties wise up and figure out that the idiot that poured that beer over Vos' head hurts our cause?


Which lefties are stupid enough to think that spilling beer is a good political strategy? Aside from alleged beer spiller Kristan, that is.

Maybe you're just being sarcastic, and I missed it.

I mean, did you hear anyone say

"Why can't conservatives wise up and figure out that the idiot that popped that balloon in the Capital hurts our cause?"

or

"Why can't right-wingers wise up and figure out that attacking liberals with a knife, and spilling blood, hurts our cause?"

What Digby said:
.....
I wrote a piece a while ago called "The art of the hissy fit" about this manipulative right wing pearl clutching and I'll re-run it here because it's clear that some people on our side are completely clueless about how this works:

I first noticed the right's successful use of sanctimony and faux outrage back in the 90's when well-known conservative players like Gingrich and Livingston pretended to be offended at the president's extramarital affair and were repeatedly and tiresomely "upset" about fund-raising practices they all practiced themselves. The idea of these powerful and corrupt adulterers being personally upset by White House coffees and naughty sexual behavior was laughable.

....


And yet here we are on Page 5 of this non-event, while actual alcohol-related problems get reported every week:
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/ ... 002e0.html
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