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Federal funds lost by Wisconsin: $1.3 billion

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Re: Federal funds lost by Wisconsin: $1.3 billion

Postby wack wack » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:05 pm

Earthling wrote:How could there be? It never happened. What happened in Denver should serve as a pretty good example of why not to do it though. I remember reading something about $7.5 million a year in operating costs, which some speculated was a low ball figure.


Or it could serve as a lesson on what to do differently, and better.
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Re: Federal funds lost by Wisconsin: $1.3 billion

Postby Earthling » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:06 pm

I might win the powerball tonight as well
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Re: Federal funds lost by Wisconsin: $1.3 billion

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:24 pm

Much of that $800 million federal grant would have been spent to upgrade existing rail beds and lines, which are currently in a great state of disrepair. Those lines would continue to be used by freight trains, which now must slow down to as low as 10 mph (near Whitewater) for safety sake. Improving that infrastructure would have been an economic boom to our state, as trains are highly efficient in transporting goods.
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Re: Federal funds lost by Wisconsin: $1.3 billion

Postby fisticuffs » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:42 pm

The rail would have ended up costing the state alot more than the $800 million we would have recieved from the feds.


So we can agree this statement was bullshit then right?
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Re: Federal funds lost by Wisconsin: $1.3 billion

Postby Earthling » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:45 pm

Are you talking about the $12 million that would have been used to upgrade and lay new track on the Hiawatha line between Milwaukee and Chicago?
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Re: Federal funds lost by Wisconsin: $1.3 billion

Postby Earthling » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:53 pm

fisticuffs wrote:
The rail would have ended up costing the state alot more than the $800 million we would have recieved from the feds.


So we can agree this statement was bullshit then right?


My apologies...the point was that it would have cost the state more money. It wasn't like the federal government was going to fund the entire project and Walker just turned it down. But I suppose if you took it mean that it was going to cost the state a greater amount than $800 million you would be correct in that would have taken more than our lifetimes in all likelyhood to get to that dollar amount.
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Re: Federal funds lost by Wisconsin: $1.3 billion

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:01 pm

Earthling wrote:Are you talking about the $12 million that would have been used to upgrade and lay new track on the Hiawatha line between Milwaukee and Chicago?

Don't know who you are addressing but if it was me, my post had to do with the original $800 million. See the embedded link to the Janesville news story from 2010.
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Re: Federal funds lost by Wisconsin: $1.3 billion

Postby Earthling » Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:15 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
Earthling wrote:Are you talking about the $12 million that would have been used to upgrade and lay new track on the Hiawatha line between Milwaukee and Chicago?

Don't know who you are addressing but if it was me, my post had to do with the original $800 million. See the embedded link to the Janesville news story from 2010.


I don't see anything in that link that talks about the $800 million. Could you help me out maybe? No big deal either way. The $12 million is the only information I could find. Admittedly Walker has a little explaining to do on that one even though he's asking for the money now:


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/30/walker-rejected-12-millio_n_842481.html
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Re: Federal funds lost by Wisconsin: $1.3 billion

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:31 pm

Earthling wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:
Earthling wrote:Are you talking about the $12 million that would have been used to upgrade and lay new track on the Hiawatha line between Milwaukee and Chicago?

Don't know who you are addressing but if it was me, my post had to do with the original $800 million. See the embedded link to the Janesville news story from 2010.


I don't see anything in that link that talks about the $800 million. Could you help me out maybe?

The article was written before Walker became governor and well before he asked for money to upgrade the Hiawatha line (which does not run through Whitewater or any part of Rock County).
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Re: Federal funds lost by Wisconsin: $1.3 billion

Postby Earthling » Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:40 pm

Ok, but what does the Janesville/Whitewater article have to do with that $800 million? I believe you inferred that a portion of that money would have gone into fixing infastructure of current rail lines, and linked that site to your post. I don't see that mentioned. The article outlines how freight rail may be the better investment for economic growth, and then cites examples.
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Re: Federal funds lost by Wisconsin: $1.3 billion

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:45 pm

Earthling wrote:Ok, but what does the Janesville/Whitewater article have to do with that $800 million? I believe you inferred that a portion of that money would have gone into fixing infastructure of current rail lines, and linked that site to your post. I don't see that mentioned. The article outlines how freight rail may be the better investment for economic growth, and then cites examples.

All I can say is that you seem not to be aware of the issue until recently. Search this forum, as details of how the federal money would have been used were discussed ad nauseum. Ungrading existing rail lines throughout the state was a big part of the Doyle administration proposal. Why do you think the article I linked to stressed the positive economic impact for Rock County?
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Re: Federal funds lost by Wisconsin: $1.3 billion

Postby ilikebeans » Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:44 pm

Earthling wrote:My apologies...the point was that it would have cost the state more money. It wasn't like the federal government was going to fund the entire project and Walker just turned it down.

Take Henry's advice and look up the rail threads from around the time Walker got elected.

The last I remember the annual $7.5 million operating expense was likely going to be offset by federal funding, so that state costs would have been one-tenth of that.

But hey, let's go ahead and spend several million a year to implement voter ID instead.
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Re: Federal funds lost by Wisconsin: $1.3 billion

Postby lukpac » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:17 pm

Earthling wrote:No big deal either way. The $12 million is the only information I could find. Admittedly Walker has a little explaining to do on that one even though he's asking for the money now:


More than $12 million:

Taken together, state taxpayers' share of the Hiawatha capital costs that would have been covered by the federal grant could total as much as $99 million, significantly more than the $30 million they would have paid for 20 years of operating costs on the Milwaukee-to-Madison segment, as estimated by former Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle's administration.

Walker had cited those operating costs as his main reason for opposing the 110-mph extension. Federal money would have paid all of its capital costs. And that doesn't count the other potential benefits that high-speed rail supporters have cited from the Milwaukee-to-Madison line, such as jobs, economic development, expanded tax base and improved freight rail tracks.


http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolit ... 10723.html
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Re: Federal funds lost by Wisconsin: $1.3 billion

Postby Earthling » Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:17 am

ilikebeans wrote:
Earthling wrote:My apologies...the point was that it would have cost the state more money. It wasn't like the federal government was going to fund the entire project and Walker just turned it down.

Take Henry's advice and look up the rail threads from around the time Walker got elected.

The last I remember the annual $7.5 million operating expense was likely going to be offset by federal funding, so that state costs would have been one-tenth of that.

But hey, let's go ahead and spend several million a year to implement voter ID instead.


Proof? The fact that I'm new to this message board doesn't mean I don't read the newspaper or watch the news. Your one tenth of $7.5 million I'm quite confident is coming straight out of the deepest human body cavities.

Do you really not think you should have to have an ID to vote? Doesn't seem unreasonable to me that you should have to prove who you are.
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Re: Federal funds lost by Wisconsin: $1.3 billion

Postby Earthling » Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:22 am

lukpac wrote:
Earthling wrote:No big deal either way. The $12 million is the only information I could find. Admittedly Walker has a little explaining to do on that one even though he's asking for the money now:


More than $12 million:

Taken together, state taxpayers' share of the Hiawatha capital costs that would have been covered by the federal grant could total as much as $99 million, significantly more than the $30 million they would have paid for 20 years of operating costs on the Milwaukee-to-Madison segment, as estimated by former Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle's administration.

Walker had cited those operating costs as his main reason for opposing the 110-mph extension. Federal money would have paid all of its capital costs. And that doesn't count the other potential benefits that high-speed rail supporters have cited from the Milwaukee-to-Madison line, such as jobs, economic development, expanded tax base and improved freight rail tracks.


http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolit ... 10723.html


$30 million for 20 years= $1.5 million/year (according to the Doyle administration)

Right. Good thing this will never happen.
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