MOBILE USERS: m.isthmus.com
Connect with Isthmus:         Newsletters 
Tuesday, March 3, 2015 |  Madison, WI: 25.0° F  Light Snow Fog/Mist
Collapse Photo Bar

What I Learned on June 5th, 2012

Please limit discussion in this area to local and state politics.

Re: What I Learned on June 5th, 2012

Postby Cornbread » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:24 pm

fisticuffs wrote:
Leftists truly need to celebrate the diversity they all claim to want for the rest of us not like them.


You could return the favor.

Actually, I (and most people) differ from leftists as we don't try and mandate/dictate what other people should do. So we don't tell people who they need to hang out with, hire, fire, rent to, etc.

Also, not being a leftist, I have a variety of 'friends', from stone cold hippies to MIOB (mind my own business) homesteaders, from military to democrat government union types, straights to gays, evangelicals to self actualizing free tibet types.

Start by dropping the derogatory "leftist" ya fuckin douche bag.

I call it how I see it, experienced it and lived it.
Is this where I should call you a name too?
Cornbread
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 688
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 5:48 pm
Location: Various places

Re: What I Learned on June 5th, 2012

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:07 pm

Here is one of the first estimates on the money spent by both sides (no breakdown by party).

The Wisconsin Democracy Campaign predicts the money spent during the recall election could double the record amount spent in the last gubernatorial election.

Mike McCabe, the Democracy Campaign's executive director, said once the final numbers come in, it is possible almost $80 million may have been spent during the election.

Most of the money went to ads, which McCabe said influences only 2 to 3 percent of voters.

"For the average citizen, it really turns their stomachs, and I swear to God, if airlines advertised the way politicians do, I don't think anyone in America would fly," McCabe said. "But people in the political class are devoted to doing it this way."
Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 20563
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all

Re: What I Learned on June 5th, 2012

Postby snoqueen » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:40 pm

He's said "leftist" 67 times now in 165 posts, according to the search function. Should we start a pool on when he hits 100?

Incidentally, a friend of mine thinks there should be no political ads at all. Web pages, mailers, door to door, rallies, all find. Spend as much as you can. Just no more ads.

Might be easier than overturning Citizens United.
snoqueen
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 12075
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:42 pm

Re: What I Learned on June 5th, 2012

Postby Cornbread » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:48 pm

snoqueen wrote:He's said "leftist" 67 times now in 165 posts, according to the search function.


I guess you're not used to being a minority. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Fluking leftist. :D
Cornbread
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 688
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 5:48 pm
Location: Various places

Re: What I Learned on June 5th, 2012

Postby Detritus » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:07 pm

Huckleby wrote:For the long term, does the Democratic Party becoming less beholden to unions make it stronger?

I know this sounds offensive, I am not disrespecting unions. But the Dem party's apparent fealty to unions is a fat target for REpublicans & Independents.

I would word it differently, myself. The Democratic Party has depended on union membership to vote for their candidates, and union money for some of their electioneering, but I don't believe the party has felt beholden or, for that matter, loyal to labor unions for a long time, except perhaps in specific local cases. You can start with Obama's big fuck-you to teacher unions through his educational policies (celebrating mass firings in NJ, for example) all the way back to the rise of the DLC and Clinton, who was much more beholden (and loyal) to Sam Walton than any labor unions.

I think it's the unions that have mistakenly offered fealty to the Democratic Party long after it no longer cared about them. It's not the only mistake organized labor has made over the past 50 years, but it's an important one. Even now, having been shafted by Obama in this life-or-death struggle here in Wisconsin, the union leadership is still swearing loyalty to him.

This is flat-out stupid. The Democratic Party, and specifically the current Democrat in the White House, won't lift a finger to prevent the destruction of labor unions and the principles of workplace democracy here in Wisconsin, probably because they figure that they'll win the November elections regardless of the outcome of the recalls. Even aside from the danger I think that stance ultimately poses to Obama et al.--didn't they learn from the 2010 elections what happens when you screw your base?--I just see no reason for labor to support the party anymore.

I think unions have to go back to a pre-collective bargaining mindset, since that's the one the "job creators" have been working with anyway: no justice, no peace. Organize to take action, not to deliver votes to some putz who doesn't give a damn about you once the election is over.
Detritus
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2612
Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 9:42 pm

Re: What I Learned on June 5th, 2012

Postby Rich Schultz » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:14 pm

I didn't realize "leftists" was an offensive term to you ah people over there on that side. Do you prefer the more accurate term "losers''? Happy to accommodate.
Rich Schultz
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 727
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:27 am

Re: What I Learned on June 5th, 2012

Postby GordonFreeman » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:25 pm

Twinner wrote:
GordonFreeman wrote:I learned that libs are pussies. Singing songs while shaking your tamborine, get nothing done.


I'm happy to oblige you with an old fashioned union thug beat-down. Name the time and place with enough notice for me to get my lawyer ready to meet me at the jail.


It does no good the get all bent out of shape now, it might have helped before. My point is that a different strategy from the left is needed, badly. It's really pathetic the way it is now.
GordonFreeman
Senior Member
 
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:48 pm

Re: What I Learned on June 5th, 2012

Postby Cornbread » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:28 pm

Rich Schultz wrote:I didn't realize "leftists" was an offensive term to you ah people over there on that side.


I've never been able to figure them out as it seems as they change their name often. "Conservatives" have always been OK with being called a "conservative". Makes one wonder why there seems to be such an obfuscation of who they are.

One interesting thing to note is the leftists are the ones that almost to a drone, use the same slogan over and over and over, en masse, until they get another one given to them to use.

"corporations"
"the rich"
"rich corporations"
"the super rich"
"big oil"
"wall street"
"racist"
"fat cat"
etc, as nauseum.

Weird isn't it? :wink:
Cornbread
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 688
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 5:48 pm
Location: Various places

Re: What I Learned on June 5th, 2012

Postby Huckleby » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:41 pm

Detritus wrote: The Democratic Party has depended on union membership to vote for their candidates, and union money for some of their electioneering, but I don't believe the party has felt beholden or, for that matter, loyal to labor unions for a long time, except perhaps in specific local cases.

True enough. It's a little like the Democratic Party deporting so many Mexicans after collecting Hispanic vote.

I don't want to get into the weeds of policies I agree/disagree with, but I think the way to look at is that the party does not have the exact same interests of its individual constituencies. Of course all are free to influence the platform.

Detritus wrote: You can start with Obama's big fuck-you to teacher unions through his educational policies (celebrating mass firings in NJ, for example) all the way back to the rise of the DLC and Clinton, who was much more beholden (and loyal) to Sam Walton than any labor unions..

I don't blame you for being frustrated, but I would say the problem is we have a two party system rather than a parliamentary system. You would have more say and satisfaction through a Labor Party like in Europe or Israel.

Detritus wrote:I think it's the unions that have mistakenly offered fealty to the Democratic Party long after it no longer cared about them. It's not the only mistake organized labor has made over the past 50 years, but it's an important one.
It's hard to say that this is a mistake when it is best option.

Detritus wrote:Even now, having been shafted by Obama in this life-or-death struggle here in Wisconsin, the union leadership is still swearing loyalty to him.
I'm glad Obama kept away, it would have made a bad situation worse.

Detritus wrote:I think unions have to go back to a pre-collective bargaining mindset, since that's the one the "job creators" have been working with anyway: no justice, no peace. Organize to take action, not to deliver votes to some putz who doesn't give a damn about you once the election is over.

My advice to unions: forget about politics and direct efforts at organizing in private sector. Give up on right-to-work states. Don't donate to Dem politicians anymore. Focus all resources and energy on core mission. Prove that non-right-to-work states can be more economically vital than the feudal areas of the South.

My advice is bitter pill to swallow. But given the landscape, it is least bad option.
Huckleby
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 7605
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:12 pm
Location: parents' basement

Re: What I Learned on June 5th, 2012

Postby Cornbread » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:59 pm

Huckleby wrote:True enough. It's a little like the Democratic Party deporting so many Mexicans after collecting Hispanic vote.

Or blacks. What has the democrat party even done for the blacks other than a sprinkling of select govt jobs or the most favored few getting the kickbacks from a got program?
Nothing--unless one counts transgenerational hopelessness.

Detritus wrote: You can start with Obama's big fuck-you to teacher unions

I hope you democratics get it sometime soon--ol barack conned ya'll. He's in it for nothing but himself. When he realized he couldn't raise his billion dollars (literally), he told the other democratics they're on their own as far as money.

So when the government unions and democrat party in WI was having it all on the line here in WI, ol barack was in MN and IL doing a bunch of fundraisers for himself.

Ya'll got conned...but don't worry, the indies that voted for him did also.

I don't blame you for being frustrated, but I would say the problem is we have a two party system rather than a parliamentary system. You would have more say and satisfaction through a Labor Party like in Europe or Israel.

You forgot that when the US (thanks to Pres. Bush) liberated Iraq, they also have a parliamentary system of government.
For some reason, I think a lot of leftist types, somehow seem to forget that.
Cornbread
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 688
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 5:48 pm
Location: Various places

Re: What I Learned on June 5th, 2012

Postby pjbogart » Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:03 pm

Huckleby wrote:My advice to unions: forget about politics and direct efforts at organizing in private sector. Give up on right-to-work states. Don't donate to Dem politicians anymore. Focus all resources and energy on core mission. Prove that non-right-to-work states can be more economically vital than the feudal areas of the South.


Huck, I think you're operating under the theory that Republicans hate unions because unions give money to Democrats. It's the other way around. Unions give money to Democrats because Republicans are trying to destroy them. For politicians it's about power, but for donors it's about dollars.
pjbogart
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 6283
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:57 pm

Re: What I Learned on June 5th, 2012

Postby pjbogart » Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:08 pm

snoqueen wrote:He's said "leftist" 67 times now in 165 posts, according to the search function. Should we start a pool on when he hits 100?


He's a troll, sno. The more you complain about it, the more he'll do it because he's not here to have a conversation, he's here to make you angry. Just before I put him on ignore I pointed out that littering his posts with smilies made him look like a child.

Predictably, he picked up the pace.
pjbogart
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 6283
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:57 pm

Re: What I Learned on June 5th, 2012

Postby pjbogart » Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:14 pm

Oh, and he has 173 posts in 17 days. If I had a pace like that I'd be over 25000 total posts.
pjbogart
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 6283
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:57 pm

Re: What I Learned on June 5th, 2012

Postby Ducatista » Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:34 pm

Rich Schultz wrote:I didn't realize "leftists" was an offensive term to you ah people over there on that side.

Well, "ah people" makes me picture you as someone who walks around with his mouth open, and I find that annoying.

But leftist is A-OK with me. Also leftie and lib.
Ducatista
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 4392
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2004 12:31 pm
Location: 53703

Re: What I Learned on June 5th, 2012

Postby Rich Schultz » Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:50 pm

My bad, I shouldn't have abbreviated.
Rich Schultz
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 727
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:27 am

PreviousNext

Return to Local Politics & Government

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Exabot [Bot], Google [Bot] and 5 guests

moviesmusiceats
Select a Movie
Select a Theater


  ISTHMUS FLICKR
Created with flickr badge.

Promotions Contact us Privacy Policy Jobs Newsletters RSS
Collapse Photo Bar