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Billionaires pay no state tax

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Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby Meade » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:53 pm

Bert Ernie wrote:Do we TRULY squelch effort and ingenuity by taxing the rich more? What does history tell us about that? It leads me to "no."

In that case, we should tax the rich at a rate of 100%.
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Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby Bert Ernie » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:57 pm

Meade wrote:
Bert Ernie wrote:Do we TRULY squelch effort and ingenuity by taxing the rich more? What does history tell us about that? It leads me to "no."

In that case, we should tax the rich at a rate of 100%.


Again, you never respond with anything reasonable. You simply go to another extreme or absolute in an effort to ridicule the question. Sixth-grade tactics Meade. Why are you such...well...such a dick?
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Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:04 pm

For the first time in U.S. history, taxes have decreased during wartime, especially the taxes on the wealthiest Americans.
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Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby jman111 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:51 pm

Meade wrote:Financial capital is an input used in production. Taxing me takes my private financial capital and turns it into public financial capital.

What about financial capital that isn't used in production?
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Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:00 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:For the first time in U.S. history, taxes have decreased during wartime, especially the taxes on the wealthiest Americans.
The problem in this case is quite obviously the "wartime" part. The U.S. should stop doing that. Henry, you shouldn't use ugly things like war/patriotism/nationalism to advance your tax policy preferences.
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Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:03 pm

ArturoBandini wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:For the first time in U.S. history, taxes have decreased during wartime, especially the taxes on the wealthiest Americans.
The problem in this case is quite obviously the "wartime" part. The U.S. should stop doing that. Henry, you shouldn't use ugly things like war/patriotism/nationalism to advance your tax policy preferences.

So how should we pay for our wars... sell more treasury bonds to China? Nothing like passing that debt to future generations. The interest on those bonds is staggering.
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Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby jman111 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:08 pm

ArturoBandini wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:For the first time in U.S. history, taxes have decreased during wartime, especially the taxes on the wealthiest Americans.
The problem in this case is quite obviously the "wartime" part. The U.S. should stop doing that. Henry, you shouldn't use ugly things like war/patriotism/nationalism to advance your tax policy preferences.

Obviously the "wartime" part is the problem. Would you propose to deal with such problems as taxation, defense spending, etc in vacuums or do you think it may be better to look at these issues in context?
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Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:19 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:So how should we pay for our wars... sell more treasury bonds to China? Nothing like passing that debt to future generations. The interest on those bonds is staggering.
Hmm. The typical prog/keynesian line on this matter is that current interest rates on Treasuries are at or near historic lows, so why not borrow?

Congress should defund the wars, whether or not the executive branch desires to continue executing them. Comparing taxation vs. debt as methods of financing war is like comparing the belt vs. the switch in determining the best implement for beating your wife. Just don't do it.
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Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby snoqueen » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:23 pm

Congress should defund the wars, whether or not the executive branch desires to continue executing them. Comparing taxation vs. debt as methods of financing war is like comparing the belt vs. the switch in determining the best implement for beating your wife. Just don't do it.


I doubt we arrived at our conclusions by the same route, but here's a case where I agree with you in full.

I wouldn't say, though, the typical "prog" line is we should continue financing our wars by taking advantage of today's ridiculously low interest rates. Lots of progressives agree we need to reduce military ("defense") spending, and aren't in favor of any of the wars we're currently in.

I think realistically the biggest obstacle to defense cuts is all the states with large military bases, which are essentially funded by budgetary pork. States that would lose their defense pork would feel it, and their representatives resist. All sorts of ideological and cultural baggage is loaded on that train, but the economic benefit to states and regions is very, very fundamental.
Last edited by snoqueen on Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:27 pm

jman111 wrote:Obviously the "wartime" part is the problem. Would you propose to deal with such problems as taxation, defense spending, etc in vacuums or do you think it may be better to look at these issues in context?
In general, these issues should be approached from first principles first, with context considered as secondary. The conviction that war is almost always wrong should drastically out-shadow the relative merits of funding war via taxation or debt. The wars we have been involved in recently are outright mistakes, thus comparing strategies for financing them is not a worthwhile activity.

Don't call it "defense spending". It is nothing of the sort.
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Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:29 pm

snoqueen wrote:I wouldn't say, though, the typical "prog" line is we should continue financing our wars by taking advantage of today's ridiculously low interest rates. Lots of progressives agree we need to reduce military ("defense") spending, and aren't in favor of any of the wars we're currently in.
My reference to "the typical prog line" isn't in the context of war spending. Look back on coverage of the debt ceiling debate to see what I'm talking about. The argument was that, since debt is so (relatively) cheap, there is little incentive to avoid swallowing more of it.
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Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby jman111 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:38 pm

ArturoBandini wrote:The wars we have been involved in recently are outright mistakes, thus comparing strategies for financing them is not a worthwhile activity.

Not worthwhile unless, of course, we continue to feed the war jones.

When war becomes an inevitable pasttime, discussion of financing stategies seems worthwhile.
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Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:44 pm

ArturoBandini wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:So how should we pay for our wars... sell more treasury bonds to China? Nothing like passing that debt to future generations. The interest on those bonds is staggering.
Hmm. The typical prog/keynesian line on this matter is that current interest rates on Treasuries are at or near historic lows, so why not borrow?

Washington's $5 trillion interest bill
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Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:09 pm

Unless you've recently done an about-face and joined the Tea Party, I can't believe that you are denouncing federal debt as a matter of principle or genuine fiscal concern. Your goal is increased taxation on the rich, and currying favor with debt-aware warhawks is a Machiavellian strategy to get there.

edit: I accidentally a word
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Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby pjbogart » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:58 pm

Arturo, you're a little bit too intelligent to be trotting out the "tax and spend liberal" meme. If the Tea Party is interested in lowering deficits and paying down the debt, why don't they consider cuts to DOD programs?
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