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local control, taxpayers and frac sand hauling

Please limit discussion in this area to local and state politics.

Re: local control, taxpayers and frac sand hauling

Postby Cornbread » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:20 pm

snoqueen wrote:Let's just say someone needs to read up on the depreciation schedule for certain classes of capital expenditures and then make an educated guess as to why the tax code was written the way it was, and how it shapes corporate decision-making.

That's interesting. So why do I see all these 24 ton trucks on the roads in WI? Why doesn't frito lay used delivery vans from their manufacturing plants instead of semi trailers?
1 truck = 1 employee, 1 insurance payment, one maintance schedules/costs, etc.

50 trucks = 50 employees (with their individual costs), 50 different truck payments, 50 different 'depreciation schedules', 50 insurance payments, 50 separate maintenance costs/times, etc. Oh, and either 50 different docks with 50 differerent employees with 50 different forklifts to load those 50 different trucks, etc.

Now add all those 50 different costs into the cost of your product, then stick in your margin and bring that to your customer. ===>> factory shutdown, unemployment, etc.

Wanna know something kewl corporate girlie? The electricity you use is probably generated by coal. Coal power plants get in their product (coal) by the railcar. The car comes into a building and it's clamped down, then turned upside down and dumped out, literally. That's 75 tons min dumped out at a time. :shock:

Why don't they use the bottom dump? Because it takes too long.
These aren't government or government/union workers here. Depending upon the setup, it can take a while to unload one bottom dump rail car, I'd say 2 hours, which is four times the size of an over the road semi trailer, and of course that means, what, 40 times your little gomer delivery trucks.

So under your "I wish" scenario, instead of taking an optimistic 2 hours to unload a load, it takes 80 hours. I think that's a full week plus of man hours.....or in leftist terms, man/woman/bisexual/gay/lesbian/transgendered/pre-op/curious/hours. ;)

Y'all are stuck viewing the world from your own isolated little world. Big world out there babycakes.
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Re: local control, taxpayers and frac sand hauling

Postby Cornbread » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:25 pm

DCB wrote:Many rural areas in Wisconsin have had to deal with a similar issue recently - hauling manure.

So does 24 tons of bovine fecal matter weigh more than 24 tons of frac sand? :D

That's part of how the LOCAL community deals with it.
They benefit from it in jobs, but also tax revenues...which also cover any extra costs they could incur. if the locals don't negotiate it right, the LOCALS should fire him/her/it and get in someone competent and someone with real world experience.

So the precedent is set: the local municipalities will have to handle the extra cost.

Most people are all in favor of LOCAL rule.
Leave madison's self appointed kings and queens out of it.
Stay in madison and bicker and file lawsuits amongst yourselves.
Same thing with the national/international greennutjobs filing lawsuit after lawsuit.

Leave my people alone! Let my people be free!
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Re: local control, taxpayers and frac sand hauling

Postby snoqueen » Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:55 am

Interestingly, NPR had a report on Wisconsin sand mining just today. Each site seems to come with its own unique local issues. At this one, NPR found local soybean growers and dairy farmers to be at odds over the siting of the mines. Here's the transcript, which also fills in some details about the way the sand is transported from this particular mine to a washing facility and from there to its points of use:

http://www.npr.org/2012/07/23/157217088 ... t=1&f=1006

And Wisconsin Watch has an article about how the DNR is (and is not) regulating airborne silica from the mines. The article describes negotiations in a rural township near Tunnel City and Fort McCoy where local residents have a wide range of opinions on the company's plans. Issues include air quality, roads, restoration of land after mining, harm to nearby property value, and various promises made by companies as they move into an area. Draw your own conclusions:

http://www.wisconsinwatch.org/2011/07/3 ... wisconsin/

Minnesota Public Radio finds the mining is triggering a resurgence of local freight rail. Anybody with knowledge of that part of the north woods knows there are lots of little, abandoned rail right of ways through rural areas, an artifact of the logging era. Mining companies are refurbishing some of these lines on their own dime:

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/collec ... unde.shtml

Maps showing where geological conditions in Wisconsin are suitable for sand mining, along with locations of mines, processing plants, and rail loading sites:

http://www.wisconsinwatch.org/2012/07/2 ... july-2012/
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Re: local control, taxpayers and frac sand hauling

Postby snoqueen » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:56 am

http://www.kickapoovsn.org/activism/fra ... -wisconsin

That one talks about Crawford County's moratorium on sand mines, which gives localities time to work up their regulations, and about the DNR's investigation of spills that have caused damage in environmentally-sensitive areas.

Enough for now. I may be the only one here obsessed with this story, at least partly because I have family in the affected area and until recently owned property up there. It's all a big deal, with potential for jobs and more commerce, possibilities for better transit, and not-inconsequential health and environmental risk. I am dismayed at the lack of mainstream media coverage downstate, but that's the status quo for Wisconsin. Minnesota seems to have done better.
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Re: local control, taxpayers and frac sand hauling

Postby Cornbread » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:54 pm

snoqueen wrote:NPR...Wisconsin Watch....MPR....

Queenie! I'm trying to help you get a peek at the world outside of the leftist dogma-nated sphere, but ya gotsta hep me outs here girlie. You really should widen your source of knowledge of the world.

Epistemology Listeni/ɨˌpɪstɨˈmɒlədʒi/ (from Greek ἐπιστήμη (epistēmē), meaning "knowledge, understanding", and λόγος (logos), meaning "study of") is the branch of philosophy concerned with the nature and scope (limitations) of knowledge.[1][2] It addresses the questions:

What is knowledge?
How is knowledge acquired?
To what extent is it possible for a given subject or entity to be known?

Much of the debate in this field has focused on analyzing the nature of knowledge and how it relates to connected notions such as truth, belief, and justification. One view is the objection that there is very little or no knowledge at all—skepticism. The field is sometimes referred to as the theory of knowledge.

The term was introduced by the Scottish philosopher James Frederick Ferrier (1808–1864).[3]


Ferrier? I thought those were for horses?

Each site seems to come with its own unique local issues.

Yup, that's why far off control of peoples lives suck. That's one of the reasons why most wisconsinites hate madison, btw. And why most americans hate DC (federal gov).
Local issues should be handled and decided locally.

'think locally, act locally, screw far off gomers trying to run your lives".

And Wisconsin Watch has an article about how the DNR is (and is not) regulating airborne silica from the mines.

Truly truly meaningless. I can only guess ww is a leftist group too?

Minnesota Public Radio finds the mining is triggering a resurgence of local freight rail.

Outstanding! I think that's what people would call "economic development"!!!! This is just the opposite of Obamanomics as there is actually economic growth! And it doesn't require a few hundred million dollars given to one of obama's campaign money bundlers.

The economically depressed northwoods may have jobs yet!
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Re: local control, taxpayers and frac sand hauling

Postby Cornbread » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:01 pm

jjoyce wrote:Hardly. The road builders are going to make out.

So maybe all those 'shovel ready' infrastructure jobs, building roads and bridges zerobama babbled about are these?
Or are these roads and bridges bad roads and bridges because they carry frac sand?

BTW, anyone know how much tax/fee monies trucking companies pay? Doesn't the state of Wi also collect $0.30 per ever gallon of diesel fuel bought?
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Re: local control, taxpayers and frac sand hauling

Postby Ducatista » Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:53 am

Cornbread wrote:
DCB wrote:Many rural areas in Wisconsin have had to deal with a similar issue recently - hauling manure.

So does 24 tons of bovine fecal matter weigh more than 24 tons of frac sand? :D

Don't be stupid. A truck-to-truck comparison is meaningless. The volume of frac sand (1,000 truck trips per day for the proposed Fountain City processing plant, brilliantly sited directly across the street from a K–12 school) is even higher than the volume of equine fecal matter that flows from your mouth. And that's saying something.
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Re: local control, taxpayers and frac sand hauling

Postby Cornbread » Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:08 pm

Ducatista wrote:
Cornbread wrote:
DCB wrote:Many rural areas in Wisconsin have had to deal with a similar issue recently - hauling manure.

So does 24 tons of bovine fecal matter weigh more than 24 tons of frac sand? :D

Don't be stupid. A truck-to-truck comparison is meaningless.


So it's not about the weight of the trucks? Why then all the blathering from leftists about the weight of the trucks?
Is it just me, or did a 180 in logic just take place due to the logic of leftists not fitting with the reality of their reasoning?

Don't ya just love text communication? I do. If this were a 1 hour radio/tv show, nothing much would happen other than scant bumpersticker bleating and yelling/name calling. Internet boards can be very valuable, but only if it exists in space, in the free market of the internet. ;)

Or maybe leftists are--once again--being used as little more than "useful idiots"?

Ya know, frac sand is killing us all, poisoning the wells, etc....

http://www.aei-ideas.org/2012/07/epa-ex ... nsylvania/

The volume of frac sand (1,000 truck trips per day for the proposed Fountain City processing plant, brilliantly sited directly across the street from a K–12 school)


That's interesting.
If they get a permit, there will be all sorts of regulations that the quarry will have to abide by. But isn't there a "mine" just south of the beltline on 151? I know of many quarries--I mean, "mines" in what can be defined as "urban areas"

So, other than bringing out "the children!" and throwing "k-12 school", what are you saying exactly?

If it will help your logic, you can post pictures of children or schools or babies. Just trying to help you as I have no idea what you're talking about.
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Re: local control, taxpayers and frac sand hauling

Postby rabble » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:13 am

This isn't about HAULING sand but it's definitely about local control.
UPDATE: Bill would ensure Wis. locals can't stop blasting
Republican Sen. Tom Tiffany's bill would ensure local governments can't regulate sand mines using their so-called police powers -- their ability to regulate health, safety and welfare. They could still regulate the mines through zoning ordinances, however.

The measure also would prohibit locals from regulating blasting activities.

The bill comes as Ashland County officials consider an ordinance controlling blasting work on a proposed iron mine just south of Lake Superior.


Big government is bad. Unless Big Business needs a little help.
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