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Democrat ran Milwaukee dumping raw sewage into L. Michigan

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Democrat ran Milwaukee dumping raw sewage into L. Michigan

Postby Cornbread » Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:09 am

Funny, but not a lot of "outrage" on this.
I guess the usual leftist suspects are too busy trying to get a 100,000,000 trolly that will go 2.1 miles.....


MMSD itself admits that it has pumped over 10.5 billion gallons of raw sewage into Lake Michigan since 2004. Meaning that since he became mayor, Barrett has continued to fall short of his goal of completely eliminating the sewage dumps. In fact, a chart prepared by MMSD shows almost no change in the amount of sewage the district flushes into the Great Lakes ecosystem every year.

Image

...
Despite this dismal record of massive waste dumps generating an ongoing environmental crisis for the local ecosystem, and an ongoing threat to an entire larger ecosystem, several environmental groups have nonetheless endorsed Barrett in his campaign against Governor Walker in the recall election. The Sierra Club, The Clean Wisconsin Action Fund, and the League of Conservation Voters are some of the most notable of these environmental groups.

http://mediatrackers.org/2012/05/30/pol ... -district/


Reminds me of the national organization of Liberal women" backing the sexual predator bill clinton. 8)

Funny stuff....if one pays attention.
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Re: Democrat ran Milwaukee dumping raw sewage into L. Michig

Postby Slick Willy » Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:58 pm

"I’m sorry but this is stupid. The city didn’t dump sewage in Lake Michigan to save money. Yes, Barrett should be held accountable if he didn’t live up to his promise, but it’s a good goal nonetheless.

Let’s be clear about why Milwaukee occasionally dumps untreated sewage into Lake Michigan. The city has a combined storm sewage system. That means the city normally treats not only all the sewage, but also all the runoff water from the streets of Milwaukee as well. Most of the time this results in less pollution in Lake Michigan since some cites only treat the sewage and allow oil and pollution filled street runoff to go directly into the lake entirely untreated.

However, in periods of very heavy rain the system is overwhelmed since all street runoff, which is later combined with sewage, is sent to the treatment plant. The deep tunnel project greatly reduced the frequency of this occurring as you can see from the chart. However since there is no way for the current system to temporarily treat only sewage and reroute the runoff during a major flood, occasional outflows of untreated sewage will unfortunately continue to occur. They would have occurred and will continue to occur under a Republican, Democratic, Green, Purple or Blue mayor, because it would require a major multi-billion dollar reconstruction of the city’s entire wastewater treatment network to do otherwise."
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Re: Democrat ran Milwaukee dumping raw sewage into L. Michig

Postby Steve Vokers » Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:30 pm

Milwaukee has made great strides in lessening the number and size of sewage overflows. Just posting a large number without context doesn't give an accurate picture.

How about comparing Barrett's record to his predecessors?
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Re: Democrat ran Milwaukee dumping raw sewage into L. Michig

Postby snoqueen » Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:47 pm

A look at the history of Milwaukee sewage and water problems shows the city has had water issues for decades, long before the original Barrett administration which started in 2004, and is still one of the few cities in the nation where sewage and rain/snow water are not separately managed. After a heavy rain, such a system necessitates discharge into the lake. Chicago and several other old Great Lakes cities (for example, Cleveland) have the same disposal arrangement and the same overflow problems.

Also, the sewerage district itself decides when to open the pipes to the lake -- it is not a decision that is run past any mayoral administration, but instead an operational decision made by the executive director of the MMSD usually in response to a heavy rain event. Recall that rain is outside the control of mayors in general, not only those in Wisconsin.

James Fratrick, a watershed specialist for the DNR, said that MMSD will never completely stop untreated waste from being released into Lake Michigan, and its state permit allows some emergency dumping to occur because zero discharge is not practical or required under federal law.


from
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/sta ... ewage-lak/

Further, things are improving:

...much of the improvement in managing overflows has come with the near completion of the deep tunnel storage system, work that has added 116 million gallons of capacity, a 28 percent increase, since Barrett became mayor.


(referring to Barrett's first term)

from
http://m.host.madison.com/wsj/news/loca ... f887a.html

It's incorrect to blame the discharges on Barrett, or on Walker either for that matter. (see paragraph 2 above) Lake discharge is undesirable, but is an engineering and weather problem. The engineering part might be ameliorated with unlimited money, but where would that come from? How popular is infrastructure spending these days, and who is trying to keep it to a bare minimum? What are the consequences of these decisions?
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Re: Democrat ran Milwaukee dumping raw sewage into L. Michig

Postby bdog » Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:09 pm

Willy, Vokers, Sno - take a "win".

My question is, do they warn people? I'd hate to be the poor bastard on that boat in the pic if they decide to go for a little dip and end up in shitwater.
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Re: Democrat ran Milwaukee dumping raw sewage into L. Michig

Postby Cornbread » Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:29 pm

Slick Willy wrote:Let’s be clear about why Milwaukee occasionally dumps untreated sewage into Lake Michigan.

10,500,000,000 gallons of sh*t, urine, vomit, food, tampons, toilet paper etc. no?

If that's "occasionally", I'd hate to see what 'regularly' means. :shock:

However, in periods of very heavy rain the system is overwhelmed


So then, do ya think ol democrat party barrett would be better off increasing the capacity of his "overwhelmed" waste system, or spend $100,000,000 on a trolly that runs 2.1 miles?

I'd think 100 million bucks spent on not dumping raw sh*t, vomit, food, used tampons, etc. into lake michigan would be a better investment. Unless.....maybe ol both ways barrett is "offshoring" his problems?
Who complains if he dumps billions of gallons of sh*t and vomit and food into lake michigan? Apparently nobody. But a lot of people (of the left) cheer when he spends a 100 million dollars on a trolly that goes 2.1 miles.

I guess no one in lake michigan is his milwaukee city and county voters. Weird, ain't it? ;)

BTW, wouldn't 100 million dollars be better off spent in his failing milwaukee government ran schools? They've sucked for decades, even though record spending. Maybe ditch the 2.1 mile trolly, keep dumping sh*t, vomit and used tampons into lake michigan, but give the local teachers unionistas that 100 million dollars?

Maybe this will help the graduation rate? ;)
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Re: Democrat ran Milwaukee dumping raw sewage into L. Michig

Postby Donald » Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:17 pm

You might want to read up a bit on the Clean Water Act and your rights to file complaints and citizen suits. Sure, you can bitch here, but it might be more productive to bitch to the EPA and DNR, where action can be taken on your complaint.

Republicans are always seeking ways to weaken the standards, regulation and enforcement of the Clean Water Act. How that solves Milwaukee's problem is something you need to explain.

The regulation on combined sewage systems were finalized under Clinton, although there is no reason Reagan or GHW Bush could not have engaged in rulemaking. The regulations and permits under the regulations usually allow for discharges when rainfall events cause problems. I have always been of the opinion that such discharges should not be allowed after a certain date, and that municipalities need to be under enforceable timetables to end discharges. Maybe they are. I haven't seen the permit conditions.
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Re: Democrat ran Milwaukee dumping raw sewage into L. Michig

Postby Cornbread » Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:10 pm

Donald wrote:You might want to read up a bit on the Clean Water Act

Isn't that the federal government, the ePa?

Republicans...Clinton...Reagan or GHW Bush


So, what you're saying is the federal government, other people, are at fault for democrat tom barrett continuing to dump billions of gallons of vomit, sh*t, garbage disposal refuse, tampons, etc. into lake michigan?

So you are OK then with barrett "offshoring" his problems, his slimy human waste, and blaming others for not fixing it for him?

While he throws away 100 million plus on nothing more than 2.1 miles of fantasy/graft?

Donald, this is an excellent example of why people know that the more power/control government has, the less representative it is and the more bureaucratically dysfunctional it is.

BTW, I have no problem with milwaukee proper and racine, OK, and chicago proper also drowning in their own feces and waste as it's all self propagated and, well, so fitting. They get the government they deserve, but pollution knows no political boundaries. Normal people could be at risk! ;)
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Re: Democrat ran Milwaukee dumping raw sewage into L. Michig

Postby Donald » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:06 pm

I have given you direction for your issue as someone who dealt with similar issues in the mining industry. If you want to be productive, you need to file a complaint with the proper authorities, and follow through. There are plenty of environmental groups who may be able to give you more specific direction, and help you out. Whining here isn't going to do a thing, except to make people realize you aren't all that serious about the issue you are bring up here.
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Re: Democrat ran Milwaukee dumping raw sewage into L. Michig

Postby Donald » Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:23 pm

Friends of Milwaukee Rivers and others filed a citizen suit on this years ago, and it has been extensively litigated. There appear to be requirements that Milwaukee has been required to take to fix the problem. Some background can be found below:

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-7th-circuit/1488653.html
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Re: Democrat ran Milwaukee dumping raw sewage into L. Michig

Postby Slick Willy » Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:38 pm

Cornbread wrote:So then, do ya think ol democrat party barrett would be better off increasing the capacity of his "overwhelmed" waste system, or spend $100,000,000 on a trolly that runs 2.1 miles?

The trolly would be mostly paid for by $55 million in federal transit funds that have been sitting idle for this use for years. That money couldn't be used for MMSD or schools. You're starting to sound like Walker, who misled voters during his campaign claiming that he would use the federal transit money intended for the high-speed rail project on roads & bridges instead, even though that wasn't an option. Walker either knew that and was lying or was too dumb to ask about a piddly $900 million.
Donald wrote:Republicans are always seeking ways to weaken the standards, regulation and enforcement of the Clean Water Act. How that solves Milwaukee's problem is something you need to explain.

Yeah, funny how Cornbread is suddenly becoming an environmentalist, but this is his schtick. He's basically saying, "Hey, aren't you guys (liberals) supposed to be the environmentalists, here?", even though this problem would have occurred and will continue to occur under a Republican or a Democrat. He also likes to point out examples of liberal politicians doing something contrary to what other liberal politicians have done in the past.
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Re: Democrat ran Milwaukee dumping raw sewage into L. Michig

Postby lukpac » Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:07 pm

Cornbread wrote:10,500,000,000 gallons of sh*t, urine, vomit, food, tampons, toilet paper etc. no?


No.

Most of that is rain water/storm runoff. A small percentage is sanitary waste.

Now, the discharges themselves.

Is it raw sewage? That term sounds like it’s all coming from toilets. Actually, an estimated 95 percent is rainwater and runoff. Still, it’s untreated and therefore can be considered "raw."


http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/sta ... ewage-lak/

Barrett made the mistake of claiming he could stop the overflows when he first ran for mayor, but that's about it. The deep tunnel system was never designed to stop all overflows. It was designed to substantially reduce them, which it has.
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Re: Democrat ran Milwaukee dumping raw sewage into L. Michig

Postby Steve Vokers » Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:49 am

Note to self: Don't feed the trolls.
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Re: Democrat ran Milwaukee dumping raw sewage into L. Michig

Postby Cornbread » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:16 am

Donald wrote:There appear to be requirements that Milwaukee has been required to take to fix the problem.


Thanks for the link. I started to scan it, but it's too early in the day and am on a time constraint, so I'll do it later.

It looks like milwaukee has been fighting this order by the EPA to clean up their feces and vomit filled waterfront?

The south shore beach in milwaukee is rated (by national resources defense council) one of the 15th worst beaches for water quality in the nation.
http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2012/06/2 ... n-america/

Yet democrat party mayor, tom barrett, went to the council of mayors and gave a speech about 'climate change' and 'green jobs'?

I am serious about reducing greenhouse gas emissions in Milwaukee. When I came into office, I was approached by community leaders who wanted to work with me on greening Milwaukee. They formed the core of my 80 member Green Team and provided specific recommendations for energy reductions.
In response to these recommendations, we have implemented a range of programs, including improving energy efficiency in our own buildings and traffic lighting systems, improving the efficiency of the city vehicle fleet and providing new transportation options for our residents

http://www.community-wealth.org/_pdfs/a ... arrett.pdf


I guess this shows tom's priorities. And imo,the whole democrat party as 'climate change' and 'green jobs' are all the rage of the party, its trendy cause celeb, so to speak.

Thank god tom failed (yet again) as trying to own the governors office. Wisconsin deserves better.
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Re: Democrat ran Milwaukee dumping raw sewage into L. Michig

Postby Donald » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:30 am

The MMSD's permit oversight and enforcement are under Scott Walker's DNR now, or has that fact escaped you. I am not sure what participation Walker had as chief executive of Milwaukee County. I'd be interested in what anyone knows about foot dragging on Walker's part.
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