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Is Wisconsin next for right to work legislation?

Please limit discussion in this area to local and state politics.

Re: Is Wisconsin next for right to work legislation?

Postby wack wack » Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:20 pm

Meade wrote:"There will be blood" - Dem. State Representative Douglas Geiss (D), from the floor of the Michigan House of Representatives today. http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/2 ... MdmOqWhCDX

This is what Democrat-cy looks like.


When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary...
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Re: Is Wisconsin next for right to work legislation?

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:55 pm

kurt_w wrote:The EPI study has the advantage of being comprehensive, thorough, and well-designed from a statistical standpoint. It has the disadvantage of being funded by, and published by, a generally left-leaning think tank. The latter concern is somewhat ameliorated by the fact that other "nonpartisan" studies have found similar results (e.g., here).


The problem I had with the EPI study was that unless I missed something in there (quick read on lunch) it doesn't account for change over time, or even starting points. Saying RTW states have lower median incomes doesn't say anything about income growth over time.

The Stevans research seems a bit better, and does appear to address that question, though I'm going to have to look at it again tonight.

kurt_w wrote:These laws don't guarantee anyone a "right to work", they do the distinctly un-libertarian act of using the power of government to dictate the terms of contracts between private parties.


There are two ways of looking at this I think. On the one side the states are setting terms on what a contract between an employer and any union can entail. On the other side, the State is saying that a contract between a union and an employer cannot dictate the terms of employment for an individual not wishing to be affiliated with the union. Not really a libertarian either (though I admittedly have some more libertarian beliefs) but from my understanding of libertarian principals, the individuals rights should be protected to the same degree as the union's and employer's, if not more so.

Now the unions do have a valid complaint that non-union employees would benefit from their bargaining efforts, however non-union employees do not get the same protection union employees get and realistically there is no reason (other than laziness on the part of the employer) why non-union employees should have the same wage/benefits package.
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Re: Is Wisconsin next for right to work legislation?

Postby kurt_w » Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:08 pm

Libertarians don't generally believe that government power should be used to dictate the terms of employment contracts, even to protect individuals.

From the theoretically coherent libertarian viewpoint ... If you're a worker who doesn't like unions, you're free to choose to only offer your services to employers who won't make you contribute to a union. You're not free to enlist the power of government to force employers against their will to offer you a job on your own terms.

Now, my guess is that most libertarians who are anti-union would say that while "RTW" laws are maybe not ideal because they involve government dictating terms of contracts, they're a necessary evil because of other distortions of the labor market, various illegitimate forms of pressure that unions apply to employers, etc. I'm not a libertarian, but that's my guess about how they'd respond. If one were being theoretically coherent, though, and considering a hypothetical RTW law in isolation, it's pretty clearly a violation of core libertarian principles.
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Re: Is Wisconsin next for right to work legislation?

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:06 am

As the forum's most articulate proponent of libertarianism, we need Arturo to join this conversation.
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Re: Is Wisconsin next for right to work legislation?

Postby Mad Howler » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:48 am

Francis Di Domizio wrote:Sorry Mad, any crazy shit I spew is of my own creation, and designed more to get my own thoughts out and hear other peoples thoughts.


I am so with you on this note.
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Re: Is Wisconsin next for right to work legislation?

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:07 pm

So-called "right to work" legislation might still be off the table, but Walker (and his GOP cohorts in the Legislature) are attempting to chip away at the power of unions in the private sector work force.

GOP bills would let firms cut worker hours with no union talks
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Re: Is Wisconsin next for right to work legislation?

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:25 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:So-called "right to work" legislation might still be off the table, but Walker (and his GOP cohorts in the Legislature) are attempting to chip away at the power of unions in the private sector work force.

GOP bills would let firms cut worker hours with no union talks


I'm curious, what talks with a union are required prior to a corporation having layoffs?

Under Assembly Bill 15 and Senate Bill 26, a company that lost a portion of its business could seek state approval to reduce workers' hours. A firm that lost 20 percent of its business could identify a group of affected workers and cut them back to four days a week, instead of laying off 20 percent of them, Griffiths said. Those whose hours were reduced could collect unemployment benefits to replace some of their lost wages, and benefits would not be affected, Griffiths said.


I'm not sure I see how it would actually benefit a corporation to keep more employees on their payroll (and receiving benefits) than it would to lay some of them off completely.
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