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Vouchers, line item veto and public schools

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Re: Vouchers, line item veto and public schools

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:55 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Scott Walker: Future voucher expansion should be based on student performance

Gov. Scott Walker said Wednesday future expansion of a new statewide voucher program should be based on whether voucher students perform as well as or better than they did in public school.

I'd like to see students, in private voucher schools that teach creationism instead of evolution, tested in biology and geography.


Ironically, had said rule been in place already, school vouchers would not have expanded.
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Re: Vouchers, line item veto and public schools

Postby Henry Vilas » Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:18 pm

Voucher schools can not only insist that students they accept follower their religious creed, but can also turn down true believers who need special education.

Voucher schools don't always take special needs students

Of course, students with special needs will cost more to educate. Specialized staff is needed.

Public schools, on the other hand, have to take all that come through their doors. No exceptions.
Last edited by Henry Vilas on Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vouchers, line item veto and public schools

Postby david cohen » Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:22 pm

I read the State Urinal article but, frankly, was horrified by the comments. Private schools work for certain "special needs" students but not the vast majority. Public schools, at least in Madison, provide pretty well for "special needs" students, but they have also been squeezed by years of budget cuts. One of my sons IS a special needs student and we watched the cuts, year after year, and fought them for the most part. The bottom line is it's a crapshoot. If you get good staff that is skilled, AND you advocate for your child, you can manage pretty well in the MMSD. The same thing happens in a private school, although you might not get staff that understands some types of disabilities. The GOOD news is that students with disabilities can go to college and work and lead very productive lives. They have to work hard, but so do their peers. They have many of the same challenges as their peers, and have to develop different ways of meeting those challenges. A lot of "special needs" families do jump between public and private schools, but in my experience, so do many typical families. Our son is getting his degree to be a math teacher, and so far, he's on the Dean's List academically. Some of his disabled peers are right there with him, and some aren't as academically inclined, but the bottom line is don't judge a book by it's cover- no matter what side of this argument you side with, the lives of these kids are much more important than the politics. I'd love to see some of the WSJ commenters spend a day with my son and his peers in college. I think they'd shut the hell up real fast!
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Re: Vouchers, line item veto and public schools

Postby Steve Vokers » Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:07 pm

A kid with an IEP in the public schools loses all of his/her rights under IDEA when they switch to a private school. The private school doesn't have to provide any of the services that the IEP mandates, whereas the public schools are bound by federal law to provide them.

And, as has been mentioned, the private school doesn't have to take kids they deem too challenging or too expensive.
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Re: Vouchers, line item veto and public schools

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:33 pm

48 schools applied to be part of the state voucher program. Only the top 25 will be accepted. One applicant is from Madison. A Christian school, of course.

Anyone know anything about the Lighthouse Christian School on Regent Street?
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Re: Vouchers, line item veto and public schools

Postby Stebben84 » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:07 pm

Is there a list of schools that applied. I'd be curious to see how many are religious.
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Re: Vouchers, line item veto and public schools

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:16 pm

The Department of Public Instruction has a list. Almost all are religious schools.
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Re: Vouchers, line item veto and public schools

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:40 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:The Department of Public Instruction has a list. Almost all are religious schools.


1 out of 48 is not. Wonder what the ratio of secular private schools to religious private schools is in general.
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Re: Vouchers, line item veto and public schools

Postby Steve Vokers » Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:24 pm

Henry Vilas wrote: Anyone know anything about the Lighthouse Christian School on Regent Street?


From their website:

We follow a curriculum from Alpha and Omega called LIFEPAC, a Christian school worktext curriculum with Bible-based content for grades K-5. LIFEPAC is based on mastery learning—each student masters the content in each unit before progressing further. Students love this motivating Christian curriculum which gives them a sense of accomplishment as they complete each worktext! LIFEPAC worktexts include engaging lessons, activities, review questions, and tests in Math, Language Arts, Science, Social Studies and Bible. Scripture passages are integrated throughout worktexts to help students connect daily learning to biblical truth.
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Re: Vouchers, line item veto and public schools

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:01 pm

I wonder how their science curriculum deals with evolutionary biology and physical geography.
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Re: Vouchers, line item veto and public schools

Postby snoqueen » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:24 pm

We'll find out when the kids are tested, right?

Or do we have to wait until they rejigger the tests so creationism is covered?
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Re: Vouchers, line item veto and public schools

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:15 pm

snoqueen wrote:We'll find out when the kids are tested, right?

Or do we have to wait until they rejigger the tests so creationism is covered?

Since nearly all voucher schools are religious in nature and most of them teach creationism, I doubt if their students could pass a fair and objective state test. The Cap Times just ran a story that says secular private schools aren't interested in the voucher program, because they can get more state money if they go charter instead.
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Re: Vouchers, line item veto and public schools

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:24 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Since nearly all voucher schools are religious in nature and most of them teach creationism, I doubt if their students could pass a fair and objective state test.


That's a pretty bold statement, do have any evidence to back it up with?
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Re: Vouchers, line item veto and public schools

Postby wack wack » Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:33 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Since nearly all voucher schools are religious in nature and most of them teach creationism, I doubt if their students could pass a fair and objective state test.


That's a pretty bold statement, do have any evidence to back it up with?


Are you serious? WTF is "bold" about suggesting that most religious schools teach creationism?
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Re: Vouchers, line item veto and public schools

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:36 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Since nearly all voucher schools are religious in nature and most of them teach creationism, I doubt if their students could pass a fair and objective state test.


That's a pretty bold statement, do have any evidence to back it up with?

A fair and objective test, especially at the high school level, will include science and physical geography questions that students indocrinated in literal biblical ideology would surely get wrong. If a student truly believes that a 6,000 year old earth is a fact or that creationism is the only explanation for the diversity of life on this planet, then how could they be properly educated?

To quote Thomas Paine: "Theology is the study of nothing."
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