MOBILE USERS: m.isthmus.com
Connect with Isthmus:         Newsletters 
Saturday, January 31, 2015 |  Madison, WI: 24.0° F  Overcast
Collapse Photo Bar

Mary Burke for Governor

Please limit discussion in this area to local and state politics.

Re: Mary Burke for Governor

Postby Zoti Bemba » Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:51 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:The issue with the Burke add wasn't that it was compared apples to oranges, so much that it actually stated that unemployment had gotten worse under Walker. While providing a comparison between when Burke left the government employ and Walker's current numbers which ignores that all of the job loss took place before Walker took office. The "pants on fire" rating came because the statement about increased unemployment under Walker was completely false...


Is 6.2 higher than 4.8? The ad talks about Mary Burke's time as Commerce Secretary and then says "under Scott Walker unemployment is up..." Which it is, compared to 4.8 and ignoring the ups and downs between the two points cited. Just like the RGA and Scott Walker's boosters in general love to conveniently not notice that the jobs number turnaround started under Doyle and slowed under Walker (though, true, it hasn't reversed; as long as one more job is created than lost then that's progress, right?). Same basic deception. Which totally irritates me in both cases, by the way, but I do get that they are playing a game of rhetoric in these commercials, not descriptive statistics.

It's a fine line, but the difference is Burke made a direct statement that was patently untrue while the RGA made a true statement that was mostly meaningless given other facts. That it was the RGA getting the "mostly false" tag versus Burke's campaign that get's the "pants on fire" rating isn't a good first start if you want to convince voters you have more integrity then your opponent.

The RGA was knowingly repeating a statistic that had already been judged "Mostly False." How that doesn't rate a "Pants on Fire" is a mystery to me.

I agree that a "Pants on Fire" for an ad that came from the Burke campaign (vs. some dark money surrogate) is not a good start even if it was only a matter of leaving out a few words that would have clarified what was being compared to what and prevented deliberate misreadings (which is a trap that the PolitiFact writer falls into, it seems to me; but it's the Burke campaign's own fault for not putting a guard rail around the pit they were setting up). I'm sure Scott Walker's surrogates will try their best to use this one rating to neutralize Walker's many many negative PolitiFact ratings -- watch for it.
Zoti Bemba
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 275
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:34 pm

Re: Mary Burke for Governor

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:07 am

Zoti Bemba wrote:Is 6.2 higher than 4.8? The ad talks about Mary Burke's time as Commerce Secretary and then says "under Scott Walker unemployment is up..." Which it is, compared to 4.8 and ignoring the ups and downs between the two points cited.


That much is true, but the intent of the message is clearly to imply that the higher unemployment rate is due to Walker's stewardship, when in fact the numbers are lower now then when he took office. I don't think any deliberate misreading on the part of politifacts or viewers is needed to draw that conclusion.

Zoti Bemba wrote:The RGA was knowingly repeating a statistic that had already been judged "Mostly False." How that doesn't rate a "Pants on Fire" is a mystery to me.


Telling the same lie over and over doesn't make it more egregious, just less effective? I don't know. That's the only reasoning I can come up with.
Francis Di Domizio
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2814
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:11 pm
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Re: Mary Burke for Governor

Postby david cohen » Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:40 am

It is pretty hilarious to see the Walker campaign demanding the ad be taken off the air by claiming it makes false representations...that pot sure likes to call that kettle black;)
david cohen
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1447
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:48 pm

Re: Mary Burke for Governor

Postby bdog » Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:35 am

Shaping up to be some high quality campaigns.

Image
bdog
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3325
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:26 am

Re: Mary Burke for Governor

Postby Donald » Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:52 am

Oh, Witto Scotty Walker and his witto fweinds are weewee upset. Big bad Mary Burke is wying about him. Waaaaaaa-Waaaaa.

What cwybabies this Walker crowd is!!!!

How can you tell when witto Scotty is lying? His witto wips are moving.

Burke uses statistics like Walker does all the time (ie., lying about them) and the cwybabies wail.

Hey, here's the difference, Republicans: Democrats are smart enough to know Burke is purposely using statistics in the creative way the cwybaby Scotty does. She's doing it to show what cwybabies you are, and how immature and unfit Walker is to lead the state.

This election is coming down to putting a woman or a cwybaby in the Governor's chair. If Walker and his cwybaby chorus don't finally man up, Burke will put them in a permanent time out.
Donald
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2435
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2002 4:53 pm
Location: Madison

Re: Mary Burke for Governor

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:55 pm

Yes Donald, because democrats never complain when republicans tell lies...

In other news, there's a good reason why primaries are good, and first term school board members make questionable candidates for major state offices:

Mary Burke campaign offers more changes to her resume

"Burke's 'typos' are adding up -- already six in just five months -- and it's difficult to see them as anything but strategic manipulations of the truth," said Joe Fadness, executive director of the state Republican Party.


It's going to be real tough to sell a higher level of integrity when they keep giving the GOP legitimate opportunities to point out those "strategic manipulations of the truth".

Donald wrote:Burke will put them in a permanent time out.

Not if her campaign doesn't pull it's collective head out of it's collective arse.
Francis Di Domizio
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2814
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:11 pm
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Re: Mary Burke for Governor

Postby Stebben84 » Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:42 pm

This is always bad for an incumbent when the campaigning hasn't really begun. I realize it's early, but it's encouraging to see.

Rasmussen poll says Scott Walker, Mary Burke are tied in 2014 race

Read more: http://host.madison.com/news/local/govt ... z2vmrb4LtK
Stebben84
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 5256
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:59 pm

Re: Mary Burke for Governor

Postby snoqueen » Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:46 pm

The Rs don't care. If they can keep enough of Milwaukee County from voting, they've got it in the bag.
snoqueen
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 11960
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:42 pm

Re: Mary Burke for Governor

Postby Donald » Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:22 pm

snoqueen wrote:The Rs don't care. If they can keep enough of Milwaukee County from voting, they've got it in the bag.

The problem for the Rs is that they are going to help spark an unprecedented turnout in precisely the voters they are trying to keep from the polls. Elsewhere, these sorts of efforts have backfired on Republicans, as young voters, the elderly and minorities don't particularly like folks who try to make it more difficult for them to vote. They'll come out just to stick it up the Rs asses. You couldn't ask for dumber folks than the white racist Republicans who are pulling these anti-democracy stunts. They are digging their own grave.
Donald
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2435
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2002 4:53 pm
Location: Madison

Re: Mary Burke for Governor

Postby jonnygothispen » Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:02 am

Francis Di Domizio wrote:
The issue with the Burke add wasn't that it was compared apples to oranges, so much that it actually stated that unemployment had gotten worse under Walker. While providing a comparison between when Burke left the government employ and Walker's current numbers which ignores that all of the job loss took place before Walker took office. The "pants on fire" rating came because the statement about increased unemployment under Walker was completely false. It's actually a stupid stat for Burke's campaign to use since Walker can even claim a far more improved unemployment rate under his administration then Burke can claim during her tenure where the rate stayed about the same (which at under 5% is fairly expected).
It's a poor ad because Mary didn't emphasize that 41,000 of the new jobs under Walker came in his first 6 months under Jim Doyle's budget/policies, and that we lost jobs for the next 6 of 8 months after Walker's 1st budget went into effect on 7-1-2011.

In essence, Mary is correct, but she didn't support that with her ad when she directly compared it to her own record instead of using all of the facts of job loss under Walker, which seem directly related to his budget and major policies.

Although we've had job gains later after the initial losses under Walker, Wisconsin has significantly under-performed compared to Doyle's record shortly after the peak of the Bush recession-which came about because of the same kind of policies of deregulation and wealth redistribution to-the-top as Walker promotes.
jonnygothispen
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3252
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:53 pm

Re: Mary Burke for Governor

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:45 pm

Burke has taken strong stances against the private school voucher program and tax breaks for those who send their kids to religious schools. She has also taken the Republicans to task for their efforts to supress the vote.

Good for her.
Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 20406
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all

Re: Mary Burke for Governor

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:29 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Burke has taken strong stances against the private school voucher program and tax breaks for those who send their kids to religious schools. She has also taken the Republicans to task for their efforts to supress the vote.

Good for her.



Struck me as pandering to her base with two promises she might never be in a position to fulfill, and will never take the blame if she doesn't. I also think eliminating the tax break is pretty stupid policy and politics. Eliminating this deduction hurts middle class parents far more then the wealthy. So she basically just tried to shore up her base support by saying she's going to stick it to middle class parents who don't send their kids to public schools.

Not at all shocked you approve though Henry.

When do nomination papers for the primary have to be in, because at this point I'm hoping the Wisconsin Democratic Party is just using her to draw fire till the last moment when they manage to nominate someone halfway competent.
Francis Di Domizio
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2814
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:11 pm
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Re: Mary Burke for Governor

Postby Detritus » Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:46 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:I also think eliminating the tax break is pretty stupid policy and politics. Eliminating this deduction hurts middle class parents far more then the wealthy. So she basically just tried to shore up her base support by saying she's going to stick it to middle class parents who don't send their kids to public schools.

No, you have it backwards. The tax credit (NOT a deduction) for private school tuition--up to $10,000 per child--is another way the Republicans say they're going to stick it to middle-class parents who do send their kids to public schools. 79% of the students getting school vouchers last year were already in private schools or being home schooled. They have been doing this without a tax credit so far, so removing a tax credit they have never before hardly constitutes "sticking it to them." On the other hand, sucking another $10K per child out of the general state revenue is going to reduce the money available for state school aid, which is genuinely sticking it to public school parents.
Detritus
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2584
Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 9:42 pm

Re: Mary Burke for Governor

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:33 am

Burke (and the news) referred to it as a deduction. My understanding is that a credit is something completely different. Being able to reduce your tax burden by reducing your claimed income by up $10K is different from getting a $10K credit.

Even in the most extreme case (single parent making $236,600 or couple making $315,460 with a high school student paying over $10K in tuition) that still only comes to $765 per student (unless it actually changes their tax bracket). Far less then a $10K credit.

Personally I'd rather see the tax credit expanded to cover any education related expenses, with no cap. Books, transportation, school lunches, field trips. I don't care if you are paying to send your kid to St Johns, or paying for your kid's half price lunch at public school, education costs should be deductible.
Francis Di Domizio
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2814
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:11 pm
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Re: Mary Burke for Governor

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:57 am

Why should taxpayers shell out for religious indoctrination? Does the separation of Church and State mean nothing to you?
Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 20406
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all

PreviousNext

Return to Local Politics & Government

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

moviesmusiceats
Select a Movie
Select a Theater


commentsViewedForum
  ISTHMUS FLICKR
Created with flickr badge.

Promotions Contact us Privacy Policy Jobs Newsletters RSS
Collapse Photo Bar