MOBILE USERS: m.isthmus.com
Connect with Isthmus:         Newsletters 
Wednesday, December 24, 2014 |  Madison, WI: 35.0° F  Overcast
Collapse Photo Bar

downtown bars vs. the price-fixing lawsuit

What are the things that puzzle, enrage, delight and tickle you as you go about your life in Madison?

Do you think campus bars engaged in a conspiracy of pricegouging?

Poll ended at Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:22 pm

Yes, that Fishbowl was a ripoff!
1
6%
Duh, maybe, I don't know.
2
12%
No, they were just pawns like everybody else.
14
82%
 
Total votes : 17

Postby charliedon'tsurf » Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:53 am

harrissimo wrote:Like wealth doesn't dircectly translate into power in American society. If you got assloads of cash your basic rights and needs are never threatened. You can buy you way out of virtually anything or into virtually anything. How do you think we got such a fucking moron for a president? It ain't based on his own merits.

Charlie... What a load of COMMIE CRAP!

My comments that sparked your juvenile response were provoked by Jason Joyce and others insulting Marsh Shapiro.

Marsh Shapiro is a friend of mine. He was the first club owner to give me a gig playing the piano back when the Nitty Gritty was a music club. My daughter who is a senior at the UW works there waiting tables.He is a hard working man who has made a lot of money because he worked hard to earn it. I don't like seeing my friends get disrespected here. Marsh has nothing to do with President Dumbass. The reason we got President Dumbass, you dumbass, is because Clinton got his weiner sucked in the Oval Office. I'm sick of all this commie crap-o-la against people who have created wealth for themselves. Get a freakin' job!

Fuck you, punk, I got a real job. My statement is more relevant to national rather than local scale, but are you dumb enough to call it a lie?
charliedon'tsurf
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1730
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2003 3:47 am
Location: Mipples (west bank)

Postby supaunknown » Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:00 pm

Well, since Harrisimo has stood up for Marsh ... I'll go on & mention how impressed I am with Kelly Meuer, owner of State Street Brats and oft-spokesperson for the campus bars.

Kelly Meuer (& his wife Sandy) are cool people. They're genuinely nice folks who work hard and treat people well. I've worked for both of them (as have many of my friends) and I can say that they're the real deal with a knack for the food/bev industry.
supaunknown
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 5578
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2002 3:22 pm

Postby robbie webber » Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:32 pm

While I don't have an opinion on any city, UW, or other governmental actions to limit drink specials, I just thought I'd do a little Goggling on the prevelance of legal limits to drink specials.

Here is a page from the National Nighway Traffic Safety Administration that shows states that have limits on happy hour, drink specials, 2-fer-1s, etc. It's pretty common to prohibit alcohol specials. You need to scroll to the bottom, click on the table, and it shows which states prohibit which types of specials.

Another link I found talked about a law prohibiting the advertising of drink specials in student-oriented newspapers.

So, in response to others' questions, yes, this is a common issue, especially in cities with large universities. Whether limits on drink specials, law suits, voluntary bans, or any other action is the correct approach is a different issue.
robbie webber
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 678
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:00 pm
Location: District 5, City of Madison

Postby supaunknown » Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:50 pm

Thanks Robbie. Now where I think the downtown bars might've gotten into trouble is that they didn't wait for a law to be enacted, they voluntarily & preemptively agreed to abide by the UW/city's wishes by ending drink specials. I am correct in that there's no such local law on the books, right?
supaunknown
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 5578
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2002 3:22 pm

Postby robbie webber » Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:19 pm

You are right, Sup, neither Madison nor the state of Wisconsin have such laws. From that table I found, 24 states have no limits on drink specials (at the state level). Wisconsin is one.

Obviously, these are only state laws. Municipalities may have laws even if states do not.
robbie webber
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 678
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:00 pm
Location: District 5, City of Madison

Postby regnad_kcin » Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:35 pm

I've never been a State Street drinker-- I can count the number of times I've ventured to get drunk on that hellstrip on one hand.

But it's not "incredibly cheap" to drink in this town. Check out LaCrosse sometime: $10 all-you can drink specials, 75 cent taps, free keg beer at happy hour til it runs out, $1 rail nights, etc etc etc.

That type of stuff is almost unheard of in Madison. Drink specials like those would send the concerned citizenry into a panic. But would there be riots? Probably not.
regnad_kcin
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2195
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2002 12:22 am
Location: tucson, az

Postby kdavis9999 » Sat Oct 15, 2005 8:21 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Rich enough to own a house valued at well over a half million dollars?

Henry Vilas wrote:Also add in a business, whose property is worth close to a million.

I don't have access to his bank account info. Maybe you can ask him.

roadkill bill wrote:You forgot his Middleton location. Not sure if he owns that or not. Middleton ownership records aren't on-line.


Cute little links boys. But exactly what are you trying to tell us here? That you're skilled at accessing public information (wow, way to point and click that mouse). Or that you know less about business than a UW freshman struggling to pass Accounting 101.

There are two sides to a balance sheet guys. You've managed to come up with the "Assets" side to the Shapiro empire. But does the other side of the ledger fall in the "Liabilities" or "Equity" section? In other words, does Marsh own these properties or does his bank?

I do know a couple of things for sure though. Marsh Shapiro pays more in property taxes than business neophytes like you could possibly pay. And he's provided tons of jobs to tons of people over the years. Can as much be said about your contributions to the local economy?

KD
kdavis9999
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:47 pm
Location: Madison

Postby mudduck » Sat Oct 15, 2005 10:31 pm

2004 Tax Info Residential
Net Taxes: $12,220.54
Total: $12,220.54

Ouch!
mudduck
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1073
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:13 am

Postby Henry Vilas » Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:00 am

Marsh bought the Francis Street Gritty over three decades ago. If he doesn't own it free and clear, he is a shitty businessman. And he ain't a shitty businessman.
Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 20282
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all

drink prices

Postby Jeff Mackesey » Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:46 am

For the record, I would like to point out that prices for beer and liquor are different in each marketplace. The distributors in La Crosse do not charge as much as the distributors in Madison. The beer and liquor makers and importers decide what the market will bear for their products and the distributors charge accordingly, and no, you can't drive a van up to La Crosse and get better prices for your tavern-at least not legally. This notion that taverns are little money minting machines is more than a little off base. People are making money, just like those holding a job make money, but the cost of doing business is a lot higher than most on this board give credit to. Especially in downtown Madison. But see for your self, invest your life's savings in a tavern and just watch the easy money start rolling in! How can they call this work when you get to party everyday?!
Jeff Mackesey
Senior Member
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:03 pm
Location: shores of glacial Lake Mendota

Re: drink prices

Postby regnad_kcin » Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:15 pm

Jeff Mackesey wrote:For the record, I would like to point out that prices for beer and liquor are different in each marketplace. The distributors in La Crosse do not charge as much as the distributors in Madison. The beer and liquor makers and importers decide what the market will bear for their products and the distributors charge accordingly, and no, you can't drive a van up to La Crosse and get better prices for your tavern-at least not legally.


Oh, sure, there are a few factors at play. I wasn't saying that anyone's ripping anyone off with our higher drink prices (if anything, let's lynch the middleman)-- but rather that the tavens really aren't doing that much to promote binge drinking in the first place. Our specials are, as I pointed out, pretty conservative when compared to LAX. And correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the whole drink special ban supposed to further limit drinkers' wallets in the name of decreased violence and property destruction?

Honestly, I'd sooner blame the athletic department than drink prices. They get people excited over the thrill of mock violence and domination, then try to limit what their hugely expensive and nationally promoted football team inspires. Can we afford to have a big dumb team that does well and is loved? And draws 80,000 screaming-drunk fans and students and alumni-hags? And becomes the surrogate watermark of our own middling, rotting northern desperation? And expect people to drink responsibly?

This notion that taverns are little money minting machines is more than a little off base. People are making money, just like those holding a job make money, but the cost of doing business is a lot higher than most on this board give credit to. Especially in downtown Madison. But see for your self, invest your life's savings in a tavern and just watch the easy money start rolling in! How can they call this work when you get to party everyday?!


Well, I'm sure there are expenses-- but if you've been in the business for 20 years and have a prime downtown location that draws frat boys like flies to shit-- one can assume that you're doing it for more than just love of the hops.
regnad_kcin
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2195
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2002 12:22 am
Location: tucson, az

Postby nimbostratus » Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:18 am

kdavis9999 wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Rich enough to own a house valued at well over a half million dollars?

Henry Vilas wrote:Also add in a business, whose property is worth close to a million.

I don't have access to his bank account info. Maybe you can ask him.

roadkill bill wrote:You forgot his Middleton location. Not sure if he owns that or not. Middleton ownership records aren't on-line.




Cute little links boys. But exactly what are you trying to tell us here? That you're skilled at accessing public information (wow, way to point and click that mouse). Or that you know less about business than a UW freshman struggling to pass Accounting 101.

There are two sides to a balance sheet guys. You've managed to come up with the "Assets" side to the Shapiro empire. But does the other side of the ledger fall in the "Liabilities" or "Equity" section? In other words, does Marsh own these properties or does his bank?

I do know a couple of things for sure though. Marsh Shapiro pays more in property taxes than business neophytes like you could possibly pay. And he's provided tons of jobs to tons of people over the years. Can as much be said about your contributions to the local economy?

KD


I find it humorous that those links are supposed to support the assertion that Shapiro is very VERY wealthy.

They really show that he's done moderately well as a local business owner.

Plug those number into a wealth index and you'll see that he's chump change as business owners go. He's not particularly rich, and his margins are probably pretty thin. And he IS under attack.

Trotting Marsh Shapiro out as a guy that's gotten rich under the business-friendly canopy of benevolent Madison is ludicrous. The guy is feeding boozebags next to a sports venue. Crummy way to make a living. Pretty sleazy business model, when you get right down to it.

And yes, he's a whiny bitch for complaining, but he's protecting his investments, so WTF. Since Madison is under attack from the sin police, those dispensing sin are feeling paranoid.
nimbostratus
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:26 am

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:36 am

This isn't Marsh's first whine; he's been doing it for years. That's his m.o. No, he isn't among the uber rich, but he's doing mighty fine, even if people can't smoke in his bar.
Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 20282
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all

Postby Shpiker » Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:56 am

Yeah, and anyone who is "doing fine" should be knocked down a bit... this is MADISON people!! Knock 'em down!!! If you didn't get the memo, there will be no getting ahead for business people here!! Sheesh...
Shpiker
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 998
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 11:42 am

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:13 am

Shpiker wrote:Yeah, and anyone who is "doing fine" should be knocked down a bit... this is MADISON people!! Knock 'em down!!! If you didn't get the memo, there will be no getting ahead for business people here!! Sheesh...

Only knocking down a whiner. You know, someone like you.
Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 20282
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all

PreviousNext

Return to Town Vibe

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

moviesmusiceats
Select a Movie
Select a Theater


commentsViewedForum
  ISTHMUS FLICKR
Created with flickr badge.

Promotions Contact us Privacy Policy Jobs Newsletters RSS
Collapse Photo Bar