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Highway M expansion

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Re: Highway M expansion

Postby Crockett » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:54 pm

rabble wrote: The well-to-do will always be able to drive everywhere, any time. The rest of us, not so much.


The well-to-do are subject to the same traffic as the poor. If the roads were smaller with less capacity, all things being equal the rich and poor would both "suffer".

The rich and the poor take the regional commuter trains in NYC. Why? Because traffic sucks. But in the end its better for everyone.
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Re: Highway M expansion

Postby fisticuffs » Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:07 pm

The rich and the poor take the regional commuter trains in NYC. Why? Because traffic sucks. But in the end its better for everyone.


So the answer to all our cities problems is just be like the biggest city in the country? Any and all NYC comparisons you can make in this conversation are completely meaningless. I'd think most of us live here in WI and not NYC for good reason. That lifestyle is fine for some, hell for others.

I asked you some pretty direct questions. You deflected and posted some bogus assertions that fail under any amount of scrutiny. Everyone living within biking distance of everything and everyone they need isn't a viable option. To discuss it as such is moronic. Better roads and better technology will do more to solve the scenarios you laid out for our societal problems than simply reducing the roads to a point where no one wants to drive. Go home and think about the bullshit position you just took without any thought and maybe we can have a discussion.
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Re: Highway M expansion

Postby Crockett » Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:11 pm

fisticuffs wrote:So the answer to all our cities problems is just be like the biggest city in the country? Any and all NYC comparisons you can make in this conversation are completely meaningless. I'd think most of us live here in WI and not NYC for good reason. That lifestyle is fine for some, hell for others.


1. Its not just NYC, that is an example. Many other cities build public transport instead of new fancy roads.

2. Ahhh...yes...NIMBY...how could I forget...The rallying cry of most Madison liberals...
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Re: Highway M expansion

Postby fisticuffs » Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:14 pm

1. Its not just NYC, that is an example. Many other cities build public transport instead of new fancy roads.


It's the only one you posed. Why can't we have both?

What would be a good use of taxpayer money?

Do you pay property taxes?
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Re: Highway M expansion

Postby Crockett » Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:21 pm

fisticuffs wrote:
1. Its not just NYC, that is an example. Many other cities build public transport instead of new fancy roads.


It's the only one you posed. Why can't we have both?

What would be a good use of taxpayer money?

Do you pay property taxes?


We can have both, but do you realize how disproportionately huge the road budget is in Wisco?

Good use of taxpayer money would be more teachers, more libraries, more cops, better power generation technology, better enforcement of existing regulations. And wow, maybe even perhaps fewer taxes for subsidization of things that have negative externalities (like more roads and SUVs)?

Umm...do I pay property taxes? Do I have a choice if I own property? And even if I dont own it dont I pay a landlord to pay it? So yes, unless you live in the woods you pay some sort of property tax. Is there a point to your senseless question?
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Re: Highway M expansion

Postby Crockett » Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:24 pm

I fully support a congestion tax to fund roads. You use them, you pay.
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Re: Highway M expansion

Postby fisticuffs » Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:33 pm

Good roads increase property values increasing tax revenue. Infrastructure is the BEST way to spend taxpayer money. We spend the money, people do the work, and in the end we have something USEFUL to show for it. There is a world that exists outside of metropolitan areas. Madison is more than the Isthmus. These roads are used for more than SUV's. We get it. You think cars are evil. Well bikers are douche bags. There we're even. I don't use your bike paths. Can I get my money back from building those? You are one selfish piece of work there Crotchett.

So you want more teachers you just don't want them to have good benefits. You want more public transportation you just want to make sure they can't negotiate their salaries.

If you rent you do pay property tax. In the most round about way. It really isn't the same as when you own property. I was only asking because you sound like a 22 year old who's never seen that bill but has a hell of a lot of opinions where that money should go.
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Re: Highway M expansion

Postby rabble » Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:36 pm

Crockett wrote:
rabble wrote: The well-to-do will always be able to drive everywhere, any time. The rest of us, not so much.


The well-to-do are subject to the same traffic as the poor. If the roads were smaller with less capacity, all things being equal the rich and poor would both "suffer".

The rich and the poor take the regional commuter trains in NYC. Why? Because traffic sucks. But in the end its better for everyone.

My scenario hasn't happened yet. When gas finally hits the level it's supposed to be at right now, only the rich will drive everywhere they want. The only traffic they'll be subject to are public transport and delivery vehicles, and other rich people.
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Re: Highway M expansion

Postby Crockett » Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:39 pm

rabble wrote:
Crockett wrote:
rabble wrote: The well-to-do will always be able to drive everywhere, any time. The rest of us, not so much.


The well-to-do are subject to the same traffic as the poor. If the roads were smaller with less capacity, all things being equal the rich and poor would both "suffer".

The rich and the poor take the regional commuter trains in NYC. Why? Because traffic sucks. But in the end its better for everyone.

My scenario hasn't happened yet. When gas finally hits the level it's supposed to be at right now, only the rich will drive everywhere they want. The only traffic they'll be subject to are public transport and delivery vehicles, and other rich people.


Who pays for the wars and subsidies to keep gas low for the 'poor'? The rich.
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Re: Highway M expansion

Postby fisticuffs » Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:43 pm

The HWY M construction has absolutely nothing to do with the wars. The money being used for it has absolutely nothing to do with the wars. Afghanistan and you're vague world delusions have nothing to do with this thread.
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Re: Highway M expansion

Postby Crockett » Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:46 pm

fisticuffs wrote:The HWY M construction has absolutely nothing to do with the wars. The money being used for it has absolutely nothing to do with the wars. Afghanistan and you're vague world delusions have nothing to do with this thread.


Why are we at war in Afghanistan? Really think about it. Why did we go to war with Iraq? So you can drive your SUV from Mt Horrible on nice, big roads at $2.99 a gallon. Period.

If you subsidize roads you subsidize driving. If you subsidize driving you subsidize oil and wars to protect that oil. Am I really arguing with a liberal about this logic? Wow, you really are NIMBY.
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Re: Highway M expansion

Postby Uncle_Leaver » Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:52 pm

Crockett wrote:Who pays for the wars and subsidies to keep gas low for the 'poor'? The rich.

You're a simpleton.
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Re: Highway M expansion

Postby fisticuffs » Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:54 pm

Why are we at war in Afghanistan?


So that Madison taxes can pay for roads for evil car driving commuters like me?

If you subsidize roads you subsidize driving. If you subsidize driving you subsidize oil and wars to protect that oil.


What do buses drive on? what about electric cars? Hydrogen vehicles surely won't need roads. Goods are magically transported via a smug sense of self worth so that can't be a use for roads. Those cyclists I pass every single day on my way to work? They never use roadways. No one is subsidizing here we're flat out paying for this becasue we need it.

Am I really arguing with a liberal about this logic? Wow, you really are NIMBY.


No I'm arguing with a moron. Go fuck your bike.
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Re: Highway M expansion

Postby Crockett » Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:58 pm

Uncle_Leaver wrote:
Crockett wrote:Who pays for the wars and subsidies to keep gas low for the 'poor'? The rich.

You're a simpleton.


I take the level of name-calling as an indication of your lack of rational thought.
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Re: Highway M expansion

Postby fisticuffs » Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:00 pm

I take the level of name-calling as an indication of your lack of rational thought.


Careful Crocky. Leaver will eat you for breakfast.
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