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Flu going around

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Re: Flu going around

Postby Dairylander » Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:50 am

Mercola simply collects and cites research from science journals that are too dry for the public to read.
If you have the patience to read the medical papers, here's one of literally hundreds of examples of the dangers of mercury;

"In a study just published, a causal connection has been established between Thimerosal, the preservative often used in vaccines, and the brain pathology found in patients diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder (ASD)."

If you want to read the whole paper:
Toxicological & Environmental Chemistry
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1 ... 0802246458
The study, A Mitochondrial Dysfunction, Impaired Oxidative-Reduction Activity, Degeneration, and Death in Human Neuronal and Fetal Cells Induced by Low-Level Exposure to Thimerosal and Other Metal Compounds was published in the June 2009 issue of the peer-reviewed journal Toxicology & Environmental Toxicology.1

Mean Scenester wrote:Then again, Dairylander is the guy who's afraid a water meter upgrade is going to leave him drooling and incomprehensible

I never said anything even remotely close to this.
If there's any hope for mature conversation, you're going to have to stop lying.
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Re: Flu going around

Postby Meade » Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:04 am

Shorty, ask your doctor if a fecal transplant would be right for you.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-204_162-575 ... nfections/
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Re: Flu going around

Postby narcoleptish » Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:08 am

Anytime I feel under the weather I just drink a bottle of cough syrup. Sometimes I'll crack open a second one, it's like a goddamn dessert.

Between Dr Oprah and the google, I imagine the whole problem of diagnosis is on it's way out. I mean, everybody already knows what's wrong with them by the time they see a doctor these days don't they? And I'm sure there are several youtube videos for setting bones and other minor procedures. There's gotta be an app coming out soon for prescribing your own meds..
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Re: Flu going around

Postby Dairylander » Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:15 am

Meade wrote:ask your doctor if a fecal transplant would be right for you.

Or maybe just eat worms.
"Man finds extreme healing eating parasitic worms"
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/12/09/wo ... index.html
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Re: Flu going around

Postby jman111 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:18 am

Stebben84 wrote:People get the flu shot like they wash their hands with sanitizer. It's great for the short term, but you're killing your own bodies immune systems.

Not according to WebMD.
Myth: Getting a flu shot weakens your immune system and makes you more likely to get the flu.

Actually, the opposite is true: Getting a flu vaccine provides your immune system with help. A flu vaccine contains a dead or weakened virus that cannot infect you with the flu, but does teach your immune system to recognize that virus as a threat. If you're then exposed to the live virus, (from a co-worker who has the flu, for example) your immune system has a jump start on fighting it off. While some people may still get the flu after having a flu shot, they'll probably have a milder form of the illness.

So why do people swear a flu vaccine gave them the flu? Some may mistake the occasional side effects of the vaccine (fever, aches) for flu symptoms. And the time of year people are most likely to get the vaccine is when colds and other respiratory illnesses are common. If you get the vaccine and then get sick with an unrelated bug, you may assume, incorrectly, that the vaccine caused the illness.

and here
When you get a flu shot or measles vaccine, you're getting a deliberate but harmless amount of the pathogen so that your immune cells can react, learn, and remember how to produce antibodies to fight the pathogen.
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Re: Flu going around

Postby Mean Scenester » Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:37 am

Dairylander wrote:Mercola simply collects and cites research from science journals that are too dry for the public to read.

And then tries to sell you a bunch of horseshit remedies for fun and profit, apparently. You're better off citing the "dry" source material, unless credibility isn't your thing.

Dairylander wrote:
Mean Scenester wrote:Then again, Dairylander is the guy who's afraid a water meter upgrade is going to leave him drooling and incomprehensible

I never said anything even remotely close to this.
If there's any hope for mature conversation, you're going to have to stop lying.

Right, you humorless goon. I'm the liar. Not your guru who several times has been rebuked by the FDA for making unfounded claims about the crap supplements and remedies he's hawking on his site. Good call.

The Food and Drug Administration wrote:This is to advise you that the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has reviewed your web site at the Internet address http://www.mercola.com and has determined that the products Living Fuel Rx™, Tropical Traditions Virgin Coconut Oil, and Chlorella are promoted for conditions that cause these products to be drugs under section 201(g)(1) of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (the Act) [21 USC 321(g)(1)]. The therapeutic claims on your web site establish that these products are drugs because they are intended for use in the cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of diseases. The marketing of these products with these claims violates the Act.

Examples of some of the claims observed on your web site include:

Living Fuel Rx™

"In today's society people are simply not meeting their nutritional needs. We see evidence of this with the rampant illnesses including cancer, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, autoimmune diseases, etc. Living Fuel Rx is an exceptional countermeasure to this lifestyle, meeting all of your nutritional needs."

Tropical Traditions Virgin Coconut Oil

"Reduce the risk of heart disease"

"Lower your cholesterol"

"Improve conditions in those with diabetes and chronic fatigue"

"Improve Crohn's, IBS [Irritable Bowel Syndrome], and other digestive disorders"

"Prevent other disease and routine illness with its powerful antibacterial, antiviral and antifungal agents"

"A Delicious Way to Prevent Disease …"

"[V]irgin coconut oil is rich in lauric acid, a proven antiviral, antibacterial and antifungal agent that is very beneficial in attacking viruses, bacteria, and other pathogens …."

"Coconut oil also raises metabolic rate …. A faster metabolic rate stimulates increased production of needed insulin and increases absorption of glucose into cells, thus helping both Type I and Type II diabetics."

"For those with Crohn's and IBS, the anti-inflammatory and healing effects of coconut oil have been shown to play a role in soothing inflammation and healing injury in the digestive tract."

"The fatty acids in coconut oil can kill herpes and Epstein Barr viruses …. They kill Candida and giardia. They kill a variety of other infectious organisms, any of which could cause chronic fatigue."

Chlorella

"Normalize your blood sugar and blood pressure"

"Fight cancer"

"One of the ways to fight cancer is the use of agents to stimulate macrophage production and activity. Interferon is a natural secretion of the body that is thought to be a stimulator of macrophages and tumor necrosis factor (TNF). Chlorella stimulates the activity of T-cells and macrophages by increasing interferon levels thus enhancing the immune system's ability to combat foreign invaders whether they are bacteria, viruses, chemicals, or foreign proteins."

Your products are not generally recognized as safe and effective for the above referenced conditions and therefore, these products are also "new drugs" under section 201(p) of the Act [21 USC 321(p)]. New drugs may not be legally marketed in the US without prior approval from FDA as described in section 505(a) of the Act [21 USC 355(a)]. FDA approves new drugs on the basis of scientific data submitted by a drug sponsor to demonstrate that the drugs are safe and effective.


See more here: http://www.casewatch.org/fdawarning/pro ... cola.shtml

I have more links if you want 'em, but they're all referenced on the page I originally cited.
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Re: Flu going around

Postby Dairylander » Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:05 pm

Mean Scenester, posts like yours make threads unreadable.

While it is possible to call your doctor and make a special order of thimerisol-free flu vaccine, 99% of people do not go to this trouble.
So just know that if you get the flu shot, you're volunteering for an annual dose of a proven neurotoxin.
Good luck with that.
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Re: Flu going around

Postby Mean Scenester » Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:45 pm

Dairylander wrote:Mean Scenester, posts like yours make threads unreadable.

Only if you can't fucking read. I thought about trimming down that quote but felt compelled to let others who might not be so inclined to follow the link know what a super fucking asshole this guy you're holding up is. I mean, really, WHAT AN ASSHOLE!

While it is possible to call your doctor and make a special order of thimerisol-free flu vaccine, 99% of people do not go to this trouble.

So I shouldn't mention it? Better to go off on a tangent about how vaccines are unsafe and dissuade people who would likely benefit from them from getting them? Why is your little contribution to this thread so valuable and mine summarily dismissed (as you do below)?

So just know that if you get the flu shot, you're volunteering for an annual dose of a proven neurotoxin.

That's my point, ass. The informed consumer isn't, necessarily. In fact, depending on where you get your shot, you probably aren't getting thimerasol since it's only used to preserve larger quantities of vaccines. Most a of the "cattle call" style inoculation efforts use single-dose syringes to lessen the probability of contamination or possibility of someone accidentally reusing a needle. These small does aren't preserved with thimerasol. It's not a "special order," it's all over the fucking place. Why do you have to be so consistently disingenuous?

You're spouting off about something you've made up your mind about despite that the scant evidence you point to, which is hardly conclusive, is still being debated by the scientific community. You know what's above debate? That vaccines save lives. Even the ones you're afraid of.

I'm not saying there's no risk posed by thimerasol, because I don't know. What irks me about your posts is that you seem to be instructing people that they should avoid these shots categorically when there's a perfectly good alternative for people who should have a shot but are concerned about possible risks.

Good luck with that.

I suppose you feel you'd be better off without all those shots you got as a kid, all of which contained thimerasol, huh? Tell me, are you a parent? If so, are you one of those idiots putting my kids at risk by not vaccinating your own? Because, if so, I've got some really nasty invective for you.
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Re: Flu going around

Postby Ducatista » Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:00 pm

Dairylander wrote:Mean Scenester, posts like yours make threads unreadable.

No, they don't.
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Re: Flu going around

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:14 pm

Ducatista wrote:
Dairylander wrote:Mean Scenester, posts like yours make threads unreadable.

No, they don't.
Yeah, I've been trying to wrap my brain around how quoted words make a thread unreadable but I just can't figure it out.
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Re: Flu going around

Postby Mean Scenester » Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:24 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:Yeah, I've been trying to wrap my brain around how quoted words make a thread unreadable but I just can't figure it out.

I don't want to alarm you, but it's probably all the neurotoxin you've been exposed to.

Or perhaps it's easier to call me out for shitting on a thread than it is to eat crow and admit that the claims of the quack you've previously held up as a subject authority are completely indefensible.

Probably the neurotoxin.
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Re: Flu going around

Postby Stebben84 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:37 pm

All I'm saying is that, as I thought more about it, I haven't had the flu in about 28 years. I've never had a flu shot and I don't plan to. Why should I? My immune system has done just fine to ward off the flu. Will that change as I get older. Probably, and that's because our immune system weakens as we get older. I never said NO ONE should get the shot and I would never tell someone they shouldn't. It's my choice.
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Re: Flu going around

Postby Dairylander » Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:38 pm

Mercury is among the most toxic heavy metals and is known to poison the central nervous system, liver, gastrointestinal tract and other systems in the body.

About 80% of all flu shots distributed in the United States contain a mercury-based preservative called thimerosal. Thimerosal consists of 49.6% ethyl mercury, an anti-bacterial, anti-fungal that allows manufacturers to sell the vaccine in large, multi-dose containers without fear of contamination.

The Environmental Protection Agency and federal Food and Drug Administration have not set an exposure limit for ethyl mercury. The FDA says it's continuing its efforts to reduce the exposure of infants, children and pregnant women to mercury from various sources.

The federal agencies have, however, set exposure limits for another organic and closely related form of mercury, methyl mercury - the type that comes from coal-fired power plants and is found in fish. They use that standard when estimating the safety of ethyl mercury.

Doctors and scientists debate the differences of the two forms in terms of how they affect the brain and body, but all agree: Both are toxins.

"Certainly it would be good to have no mercury exposure at all," said Jeanne Santoli, deputy director of immunization services division for the CDC. "But there's no conclusive scientific evidence that the amount of mercury one might get from a flu shot is linked with any neurological development outcome that's negative."

A typical 0.5 milliliter flu shot contains 25 micrograms - or 50,000 parts per billion - of mercury.

The EPA classifies a liquid with 200 parts per billion of mercury as hazardous waste. The limit for drinking water is 2 parts per billion.

Using the standards set for methyl mercury consumption - the kind that's in fish - an average 130-pound person getting the flu shot would exceed the daily limit by more than four times. A 22-pound baby would get more than 25 times the amount of mercury considered safe. And doctors are recommending that many babies and children get two flu shots this season.

A material safety data sheet from Eli Lilly and Co., which no longer makes a flu vaccine, says effects of exposure to thimerosal may include "fetal changes, decreased offspring survival and lung tissue changes. . . . Exposure in utero and in children may cause mild to severe mental retardation and mild to severe motor coordination impairment."

It does not state at what levels of exposure these consequences could occur.

The sheet is dated Dec. 22, 1999.

That same year, the Public Health Service agencies and American Academy of Pediatrics called for the reduction of thimerosal in all children's vaccines as a "precautionary measure." By 2001 it was eliminated from most vaccines, except for the flu shot. Converting to a preservative-free flu shot would take more time.

Every day, in grocery stores, fast food restaurants, pharmacies, at work and elsewhere, people are bombarded with the message to "Shoo the flu" and repeatedly told "the best way to beat the flu is to get a flu shot."

Nothing is ever mentioned about thimerosal.

Nothing is ever said about the manufacturers' warnings for pregnant women.

In late October the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists reminded all pregnant women to get the flu shot.

"Flu vaccination is an essential part of prenatal care that provides protection to both women and their babies," the organization wrote in a press release.

Yet the country's largest maker of the flu vaccine, Sanofi Pasteur, in its own literature distributed in package inserts with the vaccine, specifically states:

"Animal reproduction studies have not been conducted with Influenza Virus Vaccine. It is also not known whether Influenza Virus Vaccine can cause fetal harm when administered to a pregnant woman or can affect reproduction capacity. Influenza Virus Vaccine should be given to a pregnant woman only if clearly needed."

The same warning appears on package inserts for vaccines that do not contain thimerosal.

Other flu vaccine makers include similar warnings in package inserts for both types of flu shots.

Novartis, maker of Fluvirin, goes on to instruct that the "clinical judgment of the attending physician should prevail at all times in determining whether to administer the vaccine to a pregnant woman."

Yet physicians aren't present at most flu clinics. So, many, such as Aurora Health Care's Visiting Nurse Association, rely on information from the federal government and medical associations.

"The CDC recommends all pregnant women get them," said Lisa Taylor, a registered nurse and clinical coordinator for Aurora Health Care's Shoo the Flu program, which will vaccinate an estimated 90,000 people around southeastern Wisconsin this season.

The CDC cites one study supporting its claim that the vaccination is safe for pregnant women - a 1973 study designed primarily to look at tumors in children up to 1 year old whose mothers received a polio vaccination. It included a sentence stating that one child of more than 2,000 mothers vaccinated with the flu vaccine had a spinal cord tumor.

"It's ridiculous," said David Ayoub, a physician and medical director of Springfield, Ill.-based Prairie Collaborative for Immunization Safety, a group concerned about mercury in vaccinations. "It's a big, big deception.

"Half the kids could have died, but the study never would have shown that because they were specifically looking for tumors," said Ayoub, co-author of "Influenza Vaccination During Pregnancy: A Critical Assessment of the Recommendations of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices," published in the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons in 2006.

Still the CDC defends the study, calling it "relevant" and says other studies also demonstrate the vaccine's safety during pregnancy.

"If there was any evidence that this is unsafe in pregnancy, it's likely the (CDC's advisory committee) would not be recommending it," said Anthony Fiore, a medical epidemiologist with the CDC. "It's a vaccine that's been given to pregnant women for decades."

Fiore also acknowledged that not enough is known about its safety.

"We would love to have better data on flu vaccine safety in all types of persons," he said.

Grass-roots groups, such as the North Carolina-based Moms Against Mercury, say it is just that lack of data that stokes their opposition to mercury-laden inoculations recommended for the masses.

"They are putting out a lot of false information about its safety," said Amy Carson, founder of the non-profit group.
Some thimerosal-free

Vaccine manufacturers such as Sanofi Pasteur, MedImmune and Novartis say they're ramping up production of thimerosal-free vaccines but don't have capacity to convert all the flu shots immediately.

"Our ultimate goal is to be entirely (preservative)-free," said Sanofi Pasteur spokeswoman Patricia Tomsky. "But it takes more time and effort to make single doses."

A thimerosal-free vaccine costs roughly $3 to $4 more per shot, Tomsky said.

The Wisconsin Department of Health and Human Services said about one third of its supply this flu season will be thimerosal-free. People need to ask for it, if they want it, health officials say.

But many people aren't aware that mercury is in the flu shot.

"I didn't know," said Kate Strzok, a 23-year-old Oak Creek woman, as she walked out of the Piggly Wiggly where she had just gotten the flu shot. "Interesting that they don't tell you."

-Milwaukee Journal Sentinal
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Re: Flu going around

Postby Mean Scenester » Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:55 pm

Stebben84 wrote:All I'm saying is that, as I thought more about it, I haven't had the flu in about 28 years. I've never had a flu shot and I don't plan to. Why should I? My immune system has done just fine to ward off the flu. Will that change as I get older. Probably, and that's because our immune system weakens as we get older. I never said NO ONE should get the shot and I would never tell someone they shouldn't. It's my choice.

I have no problem with any of this. But that's not, in fact, all you said. You said, "It's great for the short term, but you're killing your own bodies immune systems."

That's the part I objected to ... because it's malarky.

Like I said, get a flu shot or don't, I don't care. But please don't perpetuate a myth. It may not pose a public health risk if someone opts out of a flu shot based on your comments, but when they skip junior's MMR for the same reason, we're into problem territory.
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Re: Flu going around

Postby Stebben84 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:05 pm

Mean Scenester wrote:I have no problem with any of this. But that's not, in fact, all you said. You said, "It's great for the short term, but you're killing your own bodies immune systems."


I agree, I was over the top with that comment. I guess I feel that people have a knee jerk reaction to get a flu shot when I don't feel they need to, but, as I said, I wouldn't stop them from getting one.

I do actually feel like the excessive amount of hand sanatizer people use is not good. But alas, this is about the flu. Incidentally, for those who didn't read it:

Fact: Stress makes you more vulnerable to illness.

Ongoing stress, such as being in a difficult relationship, living with a chronic disease, or taking care of someone with Alzheimer's disease, can make you more susceptible to illnesses, from colds and flu to chronic diseases such as diabetes and heart disease. Studies show that chronic stress seems to age the immune system, increasing your risks of conditions such as type 2 diabetes, osteoporosis, and even cancer.

Reducing the amount of stress in your life -- and improving your ability to cope with the stress you can't escape -- will help. Even something as simple as deep breathing can lessen the effects of stress. Guided imagery, progression relaxation, meditation, and yoga can also be effective stress-busters.
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