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Beltline Suggestions

What are the things that puzzle, enrage, delight and tickle you as you go about your life in Madison?

Re: Beltline Suggestions

Postby msnflyer » Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:55 pm

green union terrace chair wrote:
msnflyer wrote:OK, enough digression. I was caught in the same traffic jam as green chair.

And she wasn't even that hot, was she?


I didn't notice, was trying to figure what kind of a dumb ass move does it take to get pulled over in the left lane??

Yesterday on the I the trucks were playing Let's Block All the Lanes! Then the trooper pulling out of the maintenance yard and forced me in behind one of said trucks. Ended up having to go to Hwy. 51 and backtrack in order to get home. Lane splitting wouldn't have helped, I'd never split at 70 mph or between 2 semi trucks.

I have an idea, why don't you all stay home until I'm at my destination!! 8)
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Re: Beltline Suggestions

Postby wesconsin » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:13 am

People in Wisconsin would not be able to handle lane splitting. The only reason it works in LA (I never saw an accident, but it gets close) is because driving and cars are such an integral part of society out there, and how much everyone has to drive people are more proficient with driving. People in Wisconsin are, on average, pretty terrible. And I grew up here lol.

One major thing that needs to happen is the sense of urgency. There are way too many drivers in the area that have no sense of urgency, and don't care how long it takes to get anywhere - but they do want to be in front. They will speed up and pass you, then slow down when its not passing, and speed up when it is, just to be in front. I think it comes from the fact that people in Wi just don't drive as much as out there, people here generally don't drive 120 miles a day for work for example.
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Re: Beltline Suggestions

Postby snoqueen » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:05 am

This is an interesting comment. I have no sense of urgency when driving and I do not care how long it takes to get somewhere. (I am also not interested in being in front, preferring to stay to the right whenever possible so others can do whatever they want to do.) I want to get there safely, and that's what's on top of my thoughts the whole time. I'm always looking for potential intersecting vectors, basically, and trying to avoid them before they develop.

We were discussing this very thing the other day where I work. Two or three of the people I work with have this huge sense of urgency and are always, always in a hurry. They might be going to lunch, but they're hurrying, nearly frantic. The rest of us just take as long as it takes to do whatever we are doing.

Each faction found the other totally incomprehensible.

"Why don't you just start earlier?"

"I've got so much to do I'll never get it done!"

"Why don't you shorten your list of stuff?"

"I have to do all this!"

No common ground at all. We ended up laughing, but in traffic it's a different matter.

Now you tell me: why don't people just start earlier?

I believe the sense of urgency is the cause behind many if not most of our traffic crashes, and 100% of road rage incidents. We need to maintain a sense of wariness and flow when in traffic, not a pushing or racing mentality.
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Re: Beltline Suggestions

Postby wesconsin » Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:31 pm

snoqueen wrote:This is an interesting comment. I have no sense of urgency when driving and I do not care how long it takes to get somewhere. (I am also not interested in being in front, preferring to stay to the right whenever possible so others can do whatever they want to do.) I want to get there safely, and that's what's on top of my thoughts the whole time. I'm always looking for potential intersecting vectors, basically, and trying to avoid them before they develop.

I feel like this is saying if you are hurrying, you don't pay enough attention to safety? I disagree. I am immensely more aware of not only my surroundings, but also other drivers surroundings and usually can predict accidents before they happen.
We were discussing this very thing the other day where I work. Two or three of the people I work with have this huge sense of urgency and are always, always in a hurry. They might be going to lunch, but they're hurrying, nearly frantic. The rest of us just take as long as it takes to do whatever we are doing.

Each faction found the other totally incomprehensible.

"Why don't you just start earlier?"

"I've got so much to do I'll never get it done!"

"Why don't you shorten your list of stuff?"

"I have to do all this!"

No common ground at all. We ended up laughing, but in traffic it's a different matter.

Now you tell me: why don't people just start earlier?

I believe the sense of urgency is the cause behind many if not most of our traffic crashes, and 100% of road rage incidents. We need to maintain a sense of wariness and flow when in traffic, not a pushing or racing mentality.


Well, for example, some people only get 30 minutes for a lunch. Which given the traffic situation in some areas of town at certain times you do not have a choice but to hurry. Another example - you better believe I am an Indy car driver in training if my daughter or wife is sick and we have no medicine. Another one - have an interview in an unfamiliar place, and even though you left way earlier than you should have, the location is almost impossible to find (or even wrong address), and you cannot give the person conducting an interview, that's as good as not showing up at all. These are just a few off my head. Also, I would WAAAYYY rather have an extra half hour with my 4yr old than on the road. There are times that I do take my time, and I enjoy the view and all that, but there are just never enough hours in the day to take my time every day. Between a 4yr old and starting a new career, there just isn't time. I have no problem with people who always take your time, just please move so other people can hurry in a safe fashion. If people hurrying and people being slow were more considerate of each other, most accidents would be gone. It goes both ways.


And now the kicker? I've never been in an accident - ever. I always can see them before they happen.









/rant
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Re: Beltline Suggestions

Postby Ninja » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:03 pm

wesconsin wrote:One major thing that needs to happen is the sense of urgency. There are way too many drivers in the area that have no sense of urgency, and don't care how long it takes to get anywhere - but they do want to be in front.


I don't think everybody needs to have a sense of urgency, but there is a distinct lack of respect for other people's time and safety among drivers here. Madison drivers seem to do whatever's easiest for them with zero regard to anyone else around them. If that means turning right from the left lane (with no turn signal, of course) or straddling both lanes of a two-lane street, then so be it. It's not an attitude that's compatible with the changing nature of the community. It's getting too busy and too complicated for that kind of small town exceptionalism.
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Re: Beltline Suggestions

Postby Mad Howler » Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:24 am

bdog wrote:When the teleporters go online the beltline becomes a giant bike path.


I almost put that at your best of thead.
I think it an important point.
We will not have this Star Trek tech soon,
Our beltline is what it is and State engineers and (hopefully) their private collaborators are working as efficiently as the can given current constraints.
But do you know what I think is odd?
The massive amount of treasure that went into constructing a 4 lane divided highway between Madison and Sauk City, while any consideration of a northern beltline route was roundly dismissed.
I do not feel the ying was balanced with the yang regarding this issue.
Yeah, those teleporters are going to be fantastic when...
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Re: Beltline Suggestions

Postby msnflyer » Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:15 am

On I-90 yesterday afternoon I had the luck to meet Michelle Obama's motorcade. Another "Let's Block All The Lanes" episode.

One thing I've never been able to figure out about the Beltline is why, at the same time on weekdays, does the traffic volume vary so much? It seems that rush hour traffic volume should be about the same every day with exceptions for school holidays.
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Re: Beltline Suggestions

Postby snoqueen » Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:10 am

But do you know what I think is odd?
The massive amount of treasure that went into constructing a 4 lane divided highway between Madison and Sauk City...


That was because Tommy Thompson owned realty up in the Devils Lake area and wanted it to be more valuable, so he made it easier to reach from Madison.

It does look weird, it's a totally out-of-proportion road.
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Re: Beltline Suggestions

Postby Mad Howler » Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:19 pm

Sno,
The road builders mainline a good chunk of our treasure.
The way I see it is a certain county supervisor was not for a north beltline project. But you HAVE to spend the money right? So Tommy does a presto chango and you get a arguably under-utilized roadway we all must pay to maintain.
The road builders interests seem to drive a good deal of politics in this state.
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Re: Beltline Suggestions

Postby ttt3 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:32 pm

snoqueen wrote:
But do you know what I think is odd?
The massive amount of treasure that went into constructing a 4 lane divided highway between Madison and Sauk City...


That was because Tommy Thompson owned realty up in the Devils Lake area and wanted it to be more valuable, so he made it easier to reach from Madison.

It does look weird, it's a totally out-of-proportion road.


I suggest you drive that stretch of highway at rush hour and tell me that it's "totally out of proportion". Traffic at the intersection of 12 and Hwy K backs up significantly, even with the "out of proportion"-ness. I also seem to remember many deadly accidents on that highway before its existence years ago. Wasn't it one of the most dangerous in the state?
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Re: Beltline Suggestions

Postby gargantua » Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:44 pm

snoqueen wrote:
But do you know what I think is odd?
The massive amount of treasure that went into constructing a 4 lane divided highway between Madison and Sauk City...


That was because Tommy Thompson owned realty up in the Devils Lake area and wanted it to be more valuable, so he made it easier to reach from Madison.

It does look weird, it's a totally out-of-proportion road.

Actually, the Secretary of the DOT, Chuck Thompson, owned the Wintergreen Resort Hotel up in the Dells at the time. Of course, that had NOTHING to do with the decision to expand 12.
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Re: Beltline Suggestions

Postby snoqueen » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:24 pm

I thought Gov. Thompson owned some big chunk of realty up there too -- was it both?

Regardless, it had less to do with actual traffic needs than with real estate speculation by individuals belonging to the party in power, and was vehemently opposed by a lot of people who wanted to see the Baraboo Bluffs area's natural resources conserved and protected.
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Re: Beltline Suggestions

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:44 am

snoqueen wrote:I thought Gov. Thompson owned some big chunk of realty up there too -- was it both?

Tom Diehl, who owns Tommy Barlett, Inc. in the Dells is a good friend of Tommy T. and contributed frequently to his political warchest. (That's a lot of Tommies.)

Tommy T. also owns stock in a Dells condo project.
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Re: Beltline Suggestions

Postby WestSideYuppie » Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:18 pm

snoqueen wrote:Each faction found the other totally incomprehensible.

This seems to apply to a lot of situations, such as computer problems. You can have two people doing similar work with similar computers and software. One will have endless problems, delays, and down time. The other will experience smooth sailing.

Or getting in fights. I know people who have had to fight their way out of multiple situations, and others (including myself) who have literally never been in a fight and have never been threatened.

Or in the context of this discussion, having emergencies that require driving really fast.

At some point one begins to suspect that those who experience more than their fair share of drama might be doing something to cause their own problems, even if one can't put their finger on exactly what.
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Re: Beltline Suggestions

Postby snoqueen » Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:50 am

At some point one begins to suspect that those who experience more than their fair share of drama might be doing something to cause their own problems, even if one can't put their finger on exactly what.


That's a keeper. Thanks.
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