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Sewer line warranty

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Re: Sewer line warranty

Postby TheBookPolice » Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:48 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:
TheBookPolice wrote:This is one of Walker's tools from the 2011 budget bill. I have yet to determine exactly what problem this newly-created statute section is solving.

It's a reach, but by forbidding municipalities from doing this sort of work, it opens up a market for businesses to fill the role. The next step of course is to cause major infrastructure damage on private property, and viola, 250,000 jobs.

Well, the dump he's taking all over this state would certainly clog my sewer system.
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Re: Sewer line warranty

Postby Ninja » Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:12 pm

Endo Rockstar wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:From the city's letter: "Wisconsin Act 32 now prevents the City from performing any construction work for which a private person is financially responsible."




So anyone know what that means in regards to sidewalks? Does that mean we all hire our own contractors?

Dan Motor


The letter is misleading political hackery. There was nothing in the 2011 budget to prohibit municipalities from participating in private/public works improvements and sidewalk repairs won't be implicated by the sewer line policy "change" in Madison.

I assume the letter is referring to the reduction in state clean water fund monies used to subsidize local spending on various water and sewer-related projects. The problem is, the clean water fund monies were specifically prohibited from being used for lateral sewer piping to private properties to begin with, so the reduction in subsidy can't possibly have any bearing on this situation (unless the city was improperly using clean water funds to subsidize private construction of lateral sewer lines, which they seem to be denying now).

The city just sees an easy opportunity to use boogeyman Walker as a way to deflect responsibility for the insurance solitcitation that they wanted to send out (because, as someone else points out, they get kickbacks from the insurance company). And people eat it up, because people are simple.
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Re: Sewer line warranty

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:37 pm

Ninja wrote:The letter is misleading political hackery. There was nothing in the 2011 budget to prohibit municipalities from participating in private/public works improvements and sidewalk repairs won't be implicated by the sewer line policy "change" in Madison.


Relevant portion of act 32 (aka the 2011 budget)
Section 1727L. 66.0901 (11) of the statutes is created to read:
66.0901 (11) Limitation on performance of private construction work by political subdivisions. (a) In this subsection, "construction project" means a road, sewer, water, stormwater, wastewater, grading, parking lot, or other infrastructure-related project or the provision of construction-related services for such a project.
(b) A political subdivision may not use its own workforce to perform a construction project for which a private person is financially responsible.


Wisconsin 66.0901(11)

(11) Limitation on performance of private construction work by political subdivisions.
(a) In this subsection, "construction project" means a road, sewer, water, stormwater, wastewater, grading, parking lot, or other infrastructure-related project or the provision of construction-related services for such a project.
(b) A political subdivision may not use its own workforce to perform a construction project for which a private person is financially responsible.
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Re: Sewer line warranty

Postby Stebben84 » Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:44 pm

C'mon, ninja needs a reason to shit on Madison.
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Re: Sewer line warranty

Postby Ninja » Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:39 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:
Ninja wrote:The letter is misleading political hackery. There was nothing in the 2011 budget to prohibit municipalities from participating in private/public works improvements and sidewalk repairs won't be implicated by the sewer line policy "change" in Madison.


Relevant portion of act 32 (aka the 2011 budget)...


You are correct. I got hung up on the sidewalk question but I guess sidewalk repairs would be a public/private shared expense rather than a project for which a private party is 100% responsible like a sewer line.

But the fact remains that they're trying to make this look like Walker took away their ability to pay for this kind of repair, even though they never would have paid for this kind of repair to begin with. And with or without the politicization, commercial solicitations by municipal government are very inappropriate in my book.
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Re: Sewer line warranty

Postby WestSideYuppie » Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:50 pm

Politics aside, 70 bucks a year tells me that I can afford to be self insured for my sewer pipe. I'd file this along with all of the extended warranties and service contracts that I've been offered over the years.
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Re: Sewer line warranty

Postby rabble » Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:24 pm

Ninja wrote:But the fact remains that they're trying to make this look like Walker took away their ability to pay for this kind of repair

Actually that's what we in the technical trades call an "opinion."
Ninja wrote:And with or without the politicization, commercial solicitations by municipal government are very inappropriate in my book.

I agree and the next time I run into Paul I'm going to mention it.
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Re: Sewer line warranty

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:47 am

rabble wrote:
Ninja wrote:But the fact remains that they're trying to make this look like Walker took away their ability to pay for this kind of repair

Actually that's what we in the technical trades call an "opinion."


It's an opinion, but I can't really come up with a more plausible interpretation of:
Henry Vilas wrote:"Wisconsin Act 32 now prevents the City from performing any construction work for which a private person is financially responsible."


The only way the change actually hurts residents is if the city was undercutting private contractors which I would think would be problematic as well.
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Re: Sewer line warranty

Postby Stebben84 » Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:23 am

Francis Di Domizio wrote:The only way the change actually hurts residents is if the city was undercutting private contractors which I would think would be problematic as well.


This is where the statute is confusing for me. Our street was worked on a couple years ago. To the best of my knowledge, most of the work including sewers was subcontracted out to private businesses. I would venture to guess that if the city was bidding out so many residential sewer projects, they were able to keep the costs down. Do the folks who manage the projects count as workforce. If so, then each individual must find a private entity to work on their portion of the sewer project. On major road construction, this seems like a crazy clusterfuck not to mention you don't have the benefit of, we'll call it, group rates.

Private companies are already doing a lot of the work, whey this statute?
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Re: Sewer line warranty

Postby Henry Vilas » Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:05 am

Stebben84 wrote:Private companies are already doing a lot of the work, why this statute?

Because ALEC wanted it.

It’s unclear why the item was put into the budget but the change appears rooted in a philosophical belief that the private sector can do a better job maintaining infrastructure. On its website, the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) promotes an initiative called "The Water/Wastewater Utility Public-Private Partnership Act" that calls for private control of those systems.
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Re: Sewer line warranty

Postby bdog » Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:40 am

Dailey says the repairs generally involved digging up the street or front yard. The work usually went beyond a simple blockage that can be cleared by a drain cleaning service like Roto-Rooter.

“We were maybe doing a dozen or so each year,” he estimates. “When somebody would call us with a major problem, we would just go out and fix it.”



A dozen a year? I'll take my chances without the warranty.
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Re: Sewer line warranty

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:37 am

Based on Daley's comments it doesn't sound like this type of sewage work was being subcontracted out. Of course it also doesn't sound like there was anything preventing home owners from getting a private contractor to do the work.

I'd be interested in what the price difference between the city doing the work and a private contractor doing it. I think there is a legitimate business concern if a municipality is undercutting private businesses for the same service.

The ALEC involvement isn't all that shocking, though as a first move towards privatizing sewage it's fairly weak. The effected parts of the sewers are already private property.
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Re: Sewer line warranty

Postby peripat » Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:21 am

Francis Di Domizio wrote: I think there is a legitimate business concern if a municipality is undercutting private businesses for the same service.


You mean if government can provide a service to the people it is intended to serve - for less than those same people would pay if the service provider needed to provide an obscene amount of profit for the business owner- then government should just fuck over the majority of the people to provide profit for the few?
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Re: Sewer line warranty

Postby Steve Vokers » Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:24 am

peripat wrote:
Francis Di Domizio wrote: I think there is a legitimate business concern if a municipality is undercutting private businesses for the same service.


You mean if government can provide a service to the people it is intended to serve - for less than those same people would pay if the service provider needed to provide an obscene amount of profit for the business owner- then government should just fuck over the majority of the people to provide profit for the few?


God bless America! USA! USA USA!

Oh, and freedom.
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Re: Sewer line warranty

Postby Steve Vokers » Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:28 am

In that Madison.com article, it says the city would do the work but they'd bill the homeowner for it. So it wasn't free.

It also said the cost was around $4,000. So at $70/year the break even point is if you need it done once every 57 years.
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