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The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

If it's news, but not politics, then it goes here.

Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Bludgeon » Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:42 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:
Bludgeon wrote:
Huckleby wrote: For [conservatives], the relevant story starts when the fight began, and the evidence leans towards the black kid kicking Zimmerman's butt. The law reenforces their point of view.


The funny thing, which is also the sad thing, is that if Trayvon had been the shooter as well as the attacker, none of us would have ever heard about the story, and that's the devil's honest truth.

Sure we would, when all the conservatives were outraged that he couldn't get the death penaltry due to being under 18 at the time of the shooting.

More intellectually honest progressives than yourself know people on the flip side of this coin are being killed every day with no fanfare in the media. Not long ago somebody opened up fire on the UW campus and you can barely find a word about it on the internet. Did they find him? Are they searching?
The shooter is described as a black man, between 20 and 25 years old, about 5 feet 9 inches to 6 feet tall.?

No one knows because black on white violence is supposed to be ignored. And the survivors of that crime were just trying to go to school, and got shot by a stranger.

Black on white violence policy: Don't cover it, just make a show of investigating it, don't mention it, don't remember it.

Trayvon Martin policy: Pretend a Hispanic guy is the evil white man, pretend a thug in the making is a 13 year old Disney kid, pretend the attacker was the victim, scandalize it, because "white" on black violence is a "really big deal", even when it's manufactured.

^ Literally going on. Society is not going to recover from this level of depravity.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Stebben84 » Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:55 pm

Bludgeon wrote:More intellectually honest progressives than yourself know people on the flip side of this coin are being killed every day with no fanfare in the media. Not long ago somebody opened up fire on the UW campus and you can barely find a word about it on the internet. Did they find him? Are they searching?


How many people were killed in that shooting?

How do you know the case is closed?

Bludgeon wrote:No one knows because black on white violence is supposed to be ignored.


WTF are you talking about? You have a great knack for making shit up.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:01 pm

Fuck! my intellectual honesty as a progressive is being called into question by a guy who can't even answer a simple question about his sexuality...

Also one who just tried to spin a line of bull shit about a supposed incident of black on white violence.

Your evidence is a year old shooting where no one was killed, outside a bar (also known as not on campus). None of the victims were UW students. And you can't find any news on the interwebs about it because the case was wrapped up over a year ago when both suspects were arrested. If you read the police report linked in that article, you would have the answer to your questions.

Thanks for playing
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Ninja » Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:41 pm

Bludgeon wrote:Black on white violence policy: Don't cover it, just make a show of investigating it, don't mention it, don't remember it.


A great big deal was made about that shooting, both in local media and in law enforcement's reaction. Remember how that was the first time the PD was willing to publicly acknowledge that college bars on University were entitled to free private security, while bars like R'Place on Park were on their own?

I remember the whole situation quite clearly. Montee Ball got beat down on University the very next weekend. But he's black, so, you know, the whole political correctness conspiracy turned that into national news. I bet if he was a white Heisman candidate the news wouldn't have covered it at all.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on why there's not a White Entertainment Television, because you seem to have some great insights.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby peripat » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:07 pm

Besides the fact that in the shooting mentioned nobody was white...not the shooters or the victims though there were certainly some white people standing around at the time. Was the point supposed to be that some poor little white people were traumatized by watching someone get shot?
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby david cohen » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:59 pm

I think what bothers me most about this case is how GZ and TM could have fought this fight WITHOUT a gun being used. It happens everyday, 2 dudes going at it...but because society has such a hard-on about being "armed", that gun becomes the first resort. It's a pity. If the testimony and GZ's story are true, GZ walks- even though he could have defended himself with his martial arts training.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Ninja » Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:45 pm

david cohen wrote:I think what bothers me most about this case is how GZ and TM could have fought this fight WITHOUT a gun being used.


I don't think this confrontation would have happened without the presence of a firearm. Mr. Zimmerman evidently couldn't fight for shit so I don't think he would approach anyone without that hunk of metal in his pocket. Guns make cowards brave, but brave cowards often don't deal well with the reactions they provoke.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby DCB » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:13 pm

If Zimmerman was following established procedures for a neighborhood watch, he never would have confronted Martin directly.
“Their duty is to be the eyes and ears. Report crime as they see it,” said Dorival, adding that she provided handouts stressing this and also explained it verbally during the meeting. Zimmerman was there as the neighborhood watch coordinator, a role he told Dorival had been assigned him by the president of the homeowners' association.

Guy asked Dorival what the handouts and her instructions tell volunteers to do if they begin following a suspicious person.

“We tell them they don’t do that. That’s the job of law enforcement,” she replied.

The same instructions apply to confronting a suspicious person, Dorival said. She said her presentation would advise people, “Not to confront, to let … the police department do the job.

“They’re not supposed to take matters into their own hands. … Let law enforcement take the risk of approaching a suspect,” Dorival said.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nati ... 6736.story


“In no program that I have ever heard of does someone patrol with a gun in their pocket,” Carmen Caldwell, the Executive Director of Citizens’ Crime Watch of Miami-Dade, told theGrio. “Every city and municipality has their own policies. Here in Miami-Dade we train people only to be the eyes and ears of their communities. Not to follow and most definitely not to carry a weapon.”

http://thegrio.com/2012/03/21/zimmerman ... anization/
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Ninja » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:59 pm

DCB wrote:If Zimmerman was following established procedures for a neighborhood watch, he never would have confronted Martin directly.


High five! Psyche.

None of the community watch or 911 direction stuff is even remotely relevant. But everybody has an opinion on it.

This is why I wanted Florida to pass on the case and give the feds a reason to step in after things cooled down. It's just a circus now. Another part of the entertainment industry. Unfortunate.
Last edited by Ninja on Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:20 pm

Ninja wrote:None the community watch or 911 direction stuff is even remotely relevant. But everybody has an opinion on it.



Could it be useful in a civil case, especially if the prosecution can establish that Zimmerman instigated the fight?
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Ninja » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:15 am

Francis Di Domizio wrote:
Ninja wrote:None the community watch or 911 direction stuff is even remotely relevant. But everybody has an opinion on it.



Could it be useful in a civil case, especially if the prosecution can establish that Zimmerman instigated the fight?


Could it be useful in a civil case? Not my call. But should the state be establishing facts in the record just for the purpose of a potential civil suit? Absolutely not.

And I doubt that's happening, though I haven't kept up the case in the last couple of days. But it's an absolute shame the whole situation ever made national news in the first place. The entertainment industry needs to stay out of the justice business.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:24 am

Ninja wrote: This is why I wanted Florida to pass on the case and give the feds a reason to step in after things cooled down.

Didn't they teach you in law school that homicide is usually a violation of state law. What federal law is germane to this case?
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby snoqueen » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:36 am

Civil rights violation due to profiling by a neighborhood vigilante... oops, "neighborhood watch volunteer?"
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby rabble » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:20 am

Ninja wrote:Could it be useful in a civil case? Not my call. But should the state be establishing facts in the record just for the purpose of a potential civil suit? Absolutely not.

That's not your call either.

But establishing facts and determining whether they are germane to the case or not, which could later be used in a civil suit because they've been verified as true or false? Absolutely.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:18 pm

Ninja wrote:
Francis Di Domizio wrote:
Ninja wrote:None the community watch or 911 direction stuff is even remotely relevant. But everybody has an opinion on it.



Could it be useful in a civil case, especially if the prosecution can establish that Zimmerman instigated the fight?


Could it be useful in a civil case? Not my call. But should the state be establishing facts in the record just for the purpose of a potential civil suit? Absolutely not.


Actually after thinking about it over night, I'm pretty sure your wrong about it's lack of relevance as well. Since I don't believe the defense objected at least two legal teams (who I am guessing have far more legal experience than you) think you are wrong as well. The prosecution is trying to establish Zimmerman's mind set during the confrontation and in the time leading up to it. They are doing a fairly good job of showing Zimmerman wasn't acting like a civilian but as what he imagined a cop should act like.

Ninja wrote: But it's an absolute shame the whole situation ever made national news in the first place. The entertainment industry needs to stay out of the justice business.


It's been two decades since that ship sailed. Get over it. Besides if no one had drawn national attention to the case, there wouldn't have been anyone looking into the case in the first place. Nationally or on a State level.
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