MOBILE USERS: m.isthmus.com
Connect with Isthmus on Twitter · Facebook · Flickr · Newsletters 
Wednesday, July 23, 2014 |  Madison, WI: 61.0° F  Fair
Collapse Photo Bar

Conservatives culpable for aiding AIDS epidemic

If it's news, but not politics, then it goes here.

Do you think American conservatives' actions aided the AIDS pandemic?

Yes, their actions have consequences - mainly for others.
12
100%
No, it's important they control other peoples' sex lives.
0
No votes
No, conservatives are perfect.
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 12

Postby AlphaLiberal » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:26 pm

Discussing efforts by elected political leaders to underfund disease research, to undercut disease prevention or to simply ignore the dying people is not turning the issue into a "political footbal." It's how we treat issues in a democratic society. We discuss the issues and hold elected leaders accountable.

US conservatives do have culpability for the spread of the disease around the world, through influence at the UN over their health programs and through underfunding disease research here at home. Period.

Bath houses should have been closed down as a public health risk, but you are clutching at straws there. The people opposing shut down were probably not AIDS activitists. As others effectively point out, SF bath houses didn't cause a global spread of the disease.

The opposition from Republicans to doing anything effective about AIDS dovetails their efforts to strip homosexuals of rights as citizens to form legal partnerships, to treat them as second class citizens, to use them as political pawns for pandering partisan advantage.

But, Ned (or any other conservative), prove us all wrong. Show us that great conservative compassion in terms of support for AIDS prevention and research. Let's see it.
AlphaLiberal
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1274
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:39 pm

Postby pjbogart » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:29 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:AIDs was spreading in the bath houses, not in city hall or the Oval Office Pasteur. It would have been prudent to close them until the disease was under control.


Ned, my 10 year old nephew has better critical thinking skills than you. No one is saying that it wouldn't have been prudent to close San Francisco bathhouses. No one is saying that activists didn't make errors in their approach to AIDS, but the notion that the activists did more harm than government inaction is just plain stupid. I know we have some fundamental differences on the role of government, you tend to support the war machine while I would rather see money spent for the general welfare of our citizens. Think of it like an insurance policy... we pay taxes, pool our money and get things such as schools, bridges and medical research. Those are things that benefit us all.

Now about those purple flying monkeys...
pjbogart
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 6090
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:57 pm

Postby Smartypants » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:47 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:AIDs affects then general public at much lower rates than gay men or IV drug users in the U.S. It would be like warning men about breast cancer. Sure, some men get it, but the vast majority of the cases involve women.

But the activist insisted on alarming the general public in order to remove the stigma. In doing that, they took much of the concentration from the gay community.


It may affect the general public at much lower RATES, but the overall numbers are not so cut and dried.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/surveillance/basic.htm

At any rate, you sound a bit defensive here Flanders. Maybe you should. I don't think that conservatives deserve the entirety of the blame and we've all known for two decades about the risk of unprotected sex and AIDS. We're all culpable, up to and including any gay man having unprotected sex outside of a mongamous relationship. It's my understanding that since we have developed better treatments AIDS cases are increasing again.

If you care to look at the statistics, the Black community is experiencing the greatest increase in AIDS cases in the US and it's one of the leading causes of death in the Black Male population. Conservatives and politicians in general should shoulder some blame for not emphasizing the problem enough and for failing to work toward a better understanding of the problems. But we need to look beyond that, at our own communities, families and social groups. Liberals can share some of the blame too, there's plenty to go around.

Quite frankly, it's played out to blame an entire group of people under a single generalized label for anything. Liberal / Conservative / Democrat / Republican, blah, blah, blah. Our country needs to wake the fuck up and quit dividing itself if we want to tackle the myriad problems facing it. Otherwise, we're all gonna be screwed and AIDS will be the least of our problems.
Smartypants
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1524
Joined: Fri May 09, 2003 9:45 am
Location: In an office somewhere....

Postby christopher_robin » Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:20 pm

foo
christopher_robin
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2888
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:46 am

Postby AlphaLiberal » Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:12 pm

Smartypants:

Love the handle.

Oh, also, I wasn't saying that Cons/Repubs are 100% responsible. Simply that their conscious, knowing efforts effectively and predictably helped a plague spread.

That simple fact is not suffiently noticed and such actions/inactions need to be denounced if they are to be stopped from happening.

As far as the country waking up and facing problems, the Republicans simply will not join in such efforts. It's a fine idea, I practice it in my real life when possible, but a party that plays politics with peoples' personal lives is not a party that can be approached with reason. Instead, we need to instill a Pavolivian response mechanism when they start to sacrifice people for their personal prejudices. "Bad dog! Bad dog!"
AlphaLiberal
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1274
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:39 pm

Postby Chuck_Schick » Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:24 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:I've given two concrete examples.

I guess every utterance from that thick fuckin' head of yours is a "concrete example," huh?

But whatever. I suppose one can't expect pearls from the sand factory.
Chuck_Schick
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 10385
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 4:41 pm
Location: back atcha

Postby Smartypants » Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:48 pm

AlphaLiberal wrote:Smartypants:

Love the handle.

Oh, also, I wasn't saying that Cons/Repubs are 100% responsible. Simply that their conscious, knowing efforts effectively and predictably helped a plague spread.

That simple fact is not suffiently noticed and such actions/inactions need to be denounced if they are to be stopped from happening.

As far as the country waking up and facing problems, the Republicans simply will not join in such efforts. It's a fine idea, I practice it in my real life when possible, but a party that plays politics with peoples' personal lives is not a party that can be approached with reason. Instead, we need to instill a Pavolivian response mechanism when they start to sacrifice people for their personal prejudices. "Bad dog! Bad dog!"


You know, I tend to agree with you, but the problem is that the people you are implicating and blaming don't. So, you can point your finger at them but it isn't going to change a damn thing. What you get is knee-jerk people like Flanders pointing the finger right back at you.

Everytime you say "bad dog!" it simply hardens their resolve to beat you at the polls, using your own words, and it's been pretty successful (cheating notwithstanding). If the left and/or Dems want to take control of the situation, talk about what you're going to do to help the situation instead of just blaming the GOP for fucking everything up. That might win you a lot of friends in Madison but it's not a very constructive strategy for change in leadership.

If you ask me the real problem isn't just AIDS, it's education and social welfare as a whole. Both parties have turned a blind eye to fixing the underlying problems of socio-economic inequality and education for the poor in favor of giving corporate blow-jobs to get re-elected while eschewing anything resembling accountability for their actions. Just about everything else flows from that. Yeah, the Dems are better than the Republicans but they haven't really done us any favors lately have they? Bunch of wusses won't even stand up to President Numbskull and his pack of Crooked Cronies. Is it because they're scared or just happy the spotlight isn't on them?

Right now I'm sick of them all, except Russ, Tammy and a smattering of others, but they aren't really in charge now are they?

/just sayin... and yes, I'm bitter.
Smartypants
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1524
Joined: Fri May 09, 2003 9:45 am
Location: In an office somewhere....

Postby minicat » Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:51 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:
Marvell wrote:
Ned Flanders wrote: The same groups tried to sell this as a disease that would affect the general public when that clearly wasn't the case, confusing people and redirecting efforts in an inefficient manner.


I see.

So the 38.6 million people world-wide currently living with AIDS (Source: UNAIDS/WHO 2006 Report on the global AIDS epidemic ) all went to the same San Francisco bath houses?


Oh, so Reagan/Bush I/Bubba get's a pass/Bush II are to blame for worldwide AIDs cases? Even though the disease originated in Africa?

Makes perfect sense to me. Sure the left hasn't turned AIDs into a political football. Sure they haven't :roll:


Well, since the "right" is the undisputed master of turning sensitive issues into political footballs, I guess you'd know.
minicat
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 4443
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2002 2:22 pm

Postby AlphaLiberal » Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:03 pm

Smartypants wrote:If the left and/or Dems want to take control of the situation, talk about what you're going to do to help the situation instead of just blaming the GOP for fucking everything up.

I get your point but just disagree. Criticism has it's own place. Sure, there need to be better policies and saying "fighting prevention programs like free condoms, safe sex education and disease research is counter-productive" doesn't make it hard to see what the policies may be.

I hear ya on the Dems. There have been more signs of hope but then they relapse into wussiness.

Here's a web site that gives hope for a mre civil dialogue.
http://www.republicansforhumility.com/
AlphaLiberal
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1274
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:39 pm

Previous

Return to Headlines

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

moviesmusiceats
Select a Movie
Select a Theater


commentsViewedForum
  ISTHMUS FLICKR

Promotions Contact us Privacy Policy Jobs Newsletters RSS
Collapse Photo Bar