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going up?.....gas prices, that is...

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Re: going up?.....gas prices, that is...

Postby lysander » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:05 am

Matt Logan is to driving as Ira Sharenow was to smoking.

Here's to hoping the gas tax gets tripled.
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Re: going up?.....gas prices, that is...

Postby Matt Logan » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:51 am

Beesorry,

I can appreciate that since 80% of Americans believe oil companies are manipulating prices you are comfortable whining about oil company price manipulation before the election. Sadly, the facts suggest that you and 80% of Americans are mistaken. First off, gas prices drop every November due to decreasing demand. The price chart above demonstrates this clearly for November 2007.

Next, if oil companies are putting downward pressure on gas prices, I would expect to see a sharp rise in production above normal levels for more than 8 weeks before the election. How about we check out the production data and see?

Image

Image

[Note that these charts are not from the oil industry, they are from the Energy Information Administration: A part of the US government. Further, the EIA is one of the agencies most insulated from political influence within in the US government as mandated by congress.]

A sharp drop in production occured at about the same time demand was falling. In fact, days of supply fell below last year's level right at the time demand was lowest. This is contrary to what I would expect to see if oil companies were manipulating the price rather than simply supplying just the amount the market consumed.

Continuing to follow the graph, once demand started picking back up, gasoline production bounced back up to NORMAL levels compared to last year with days of supply snapping back in line with the 2008 trend versus last year from February onward.

If you have a more trusted source of information and analysis, I would love to see it - please post it here for everyone to see.
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Re: going up?.....gas prices, that is...

Postby Matt Logan » Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:21 pm

beesorry wrote:Its as sure a thing as the oil companies fat assed monopoly doing what they can to get the best friends they ever had installed into office again.

I would think that if the fat-assed oil monopolies were really interested in manipulating the election in their favor, they would find a way to change their quarterly reporting date to the 15th of the month so as to avoid it coming out that Exxon made the biggest profit in history less than a week before the election. Joe Biden is already using the recent oil company profit reports in his speeches and it is topping the news cycle right now.

I believe the oil companies couldn't care less about the results of the election at this point because they already got what they wanted: greater access to previously off-limits areas in the US - and not because gas prices were low, but because they were high.
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Re: going up?.....gas prices, that is...

Postby narcoleptish » Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:24 pm

Like banking, the oil industry masks their business in multiple layers of graphs and statistics and industry jargon all designed to dissuade the common man from even trying to understand why gas costs what it costs. The price of gas has not dropped because people are driving a little less. I don't know why gas has dropped but I think they pretty much charge us what they want to charge us.
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Re: going up?.....gas prices, that is...

Postby jerrymd » Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:15 am

i believe gas prices went down because demand from industries and transportation went down due to economy recession and decreased capital to buy fuel. the refineries have been suffering from the high cost of oil so that is why they have not stockpiled gasoline.
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Re: going up?.....gas prices, that is...

Postby Alfred McDougal » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:03 pm

jerrymd wrote:i believe gas prices went down because demand from industries and transportation went down due to economy recession


Bingo.

Oil and refined gas prices are volatile because of price transparencies and a volatile world. NYMEX publishes crude and refined prices every day (amongst other stats), thus dispelling popular price gouging conspiracies. Look at past numbers during recessions; stocks, shipments, # of traded contracts, refinery output, average pump prices etc always go down because industry demands less because it is hedging against low consumer confidence.

There are a lot more factors to figure into the final equation of "pump price," but one need not dig to far because they simply won't find a whole lot of boogie men. As popular as "big oil" conspiracies are amongst consumers and politicians who love to capitalize off of consumer resentment, the conspiracies of price gouging typically don't hold up against the raw data as we are seeing right now.
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Re: going up?.....gas prices, that is...

Postby wallrock » Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:08 pm

Exactly.
I work with a good number of larger corporations as well as several federal and state agencies, and I for one cannot understand how these supposed conspiracies would ever come off. Seriously, the amount of emails I'm cc'd on and the amount of paperwork that needs to be filled before anything gets off the ground is astounding. I'm not trying to say that shady dealings aren't out there, but the idea that these big companies are nimble enough to move ahead of the market is laughable to me.
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Re: going up?.....gas prices, that is...

Postby RockHopper » Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:34 pm

So here we are with 2008 behind us and a little clearer perspective on how gasoline demand impacts prices.

I did a few calculations based on EIA data, and from Dec 2007 to Oct 2008, American motorists spent an additional 90 billion dollars on gasoline compared to the previous year. As we have now learned since demand started dropping in July, American motorists always had it in their power to reduce the price of gasoline by simply reducing their demand. But instead of adopting some energy saving measures back in March of 2008 when their ability to impact prices was at it's peak, consumers instead chose to cut back on their spending and give the economy the double-whammy of reduced spending and trickle-up energy price inflation during what we now know was the start of a major recession.

Had Americans been able to cut back on some of their driving, energy prices could have been reduced enough to avoid sending the American automakers into near-bankruptcy and we wouldn't be talking about bailing them out. To some degree, this is also true for our failing financial institutions.

Yes, upon reflection there is a strong case to be made that the reluctance of American consumers to cut back on gasoline consumption is costing them dearly.

You were warned.
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Re: going up?.....gas prices, that is...

Postby RockHopper » Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:41 pm

Did I read in the news that gas prices are going up again? Did anybody learn anything from 2008? :twisted:
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Re: going up?.....gas prices, that is...

Postby Average Joe » Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:51 pm

RockHopper wrote: Did anybody learn anything from 2008?


Yes, that you're a troll.
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Re: going up?.....gas prices, that is...

Postby Ned Flanders » Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:37 am

When will Obama control these looting energy companies?
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Re: going up?.....gas prices, that is...

Postby zippy » Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:49 am

Ned Flanders wrote:When will Obama control these looting energy companies?

Unlike GW Bush, Obama's best friends family and former workmates are not all oil executives and Saudi royal family members.
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Re: going up?.....gas prices, that is...

Postby gargantua » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:57 am

Ned Flanders wrote:When will Obama control these looting energy companies?


Now that the health care bill has passed and the Red Army tanks are rolling into downtown Minneapolis to force residents to use the light rail system, he'll be getting right on that Ned.

Socialized gasoline. Sounds yummy.
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Re: going up?.....gas prices, that is...

Postby O.J. » Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:01 am

Ned Flanders wrote:When will Obama control these looting energy companies?


You mean, like this?

http://247wallst.com/2010/03/31/obama-t ... more-63273
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Re: going up?.....gas prices, that is...

Postby uwstudent » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:54 am

Woo hoo!! Keep them going up!!
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