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A very disturbing story

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A very disturbing story

Postby Ned Flounders » Wed May 20, 2009 12:50 pm

Anyone else following the story in the (MSP) Star-Tribune, about the Hauser family? Their 13-year-old son Daniel is dying of cancer and they're refusing medical treatment because it violates their religious beliefs.

A court in New Ulm just ordered the parents to take Daniel to the hospital. Now Mom Hauser appears to have taken him out of the country to evade the court order, and Dad Hauser isn't talking.

After having been "homeschooled" all his life, Daniel is also completely illiterate. (According to the court records, he's unable to recognize the word "The".)

link
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Re: A very disturbing story

Postby TAsunder » Wed May 20, 2009 1:04 pm

The boy supposedly has a learning disability... wonder how severe it is.

I was going to suggest that forcing a kid who may already have late-stage cancer to take chemotherapy seems unreasonable due to a low survival rate. However, I then read that he has hodgkin's lymphoma which is considered highly treatable even in late-stage cases.

I don't know much about the Nemenhah Band but it seems that they are a quite new and disfavor traditional medicine and instead prefer Native American "medicine". Anyone have familiarity with this group?
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Re: A very disturbing story

Postby Ned Flounders » Wed May 20, 2009 1:09 pm

And, of course, there's another big story in the news today about children being victimized in the name of religion:

Thousands Beaten, Raped in Irish Reform Schools
By SHAWN POGATCHNIK
The Associated Press
Wednesday, May 20, 2009; 11:53 AM

DUBLIN -- A fiercely debated, long-delayed investigation into Ireland's Roman Catholic-run institutions says priests and nuns terrorized thousands of boys and girls in workhouse-style schools for decades _ and government inspectors failed to stop the chronic beatings, rapes and humiliation.

Nine years in the making, Wednesday's 2,600-page report sides almost completely with the horrific reports of abuse from former students sent to more than 250 church-run, mostly residential institutions.


link

Very different from the Hauser case, obviously. But both are reminders of why society can't abdicate its responsibility to ensure children are being appropriately cared for.
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Re: A very disturbing story

Postby Ned Flounders » Wed May 20, 2009 1:12 pm

TAsunder wrote:I don't know much about the Nemenhah Band but it seems that they are a quite new and disfavor traditional medicine and instead prefer Native American "medicine". Anyone have familiarity with this group?


One of the articles in the Strib claims that the leader of the group was convicted of two counts of fraud in another state. For what that's worth.
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Re: A very disturbing story

Postby Ned Flounders » Wed May 20, 2009 1:18 pm

And of course in Wisconsin we have the Madeline Neumann case, which seems to be in the news again.
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Re: A very disturbing story

Postby Ned Flanders » Wed May 20, 2009 4:38 pm

The left demanded that the gov't stay out of the Terri Schiavo and Elian Gonzalez cases so what gives? You should all be thrilled.

I
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Re: A very disturbing story

Postby fisticuffs » Wed May 20, 2009 4:45 pm

Here's where I stand in all my devil worshiping liberal commie glory.

1) The parents are fucking stupid.
2) The state should let them be that fucking stupid.
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Re: A very disturbing story

Postby evansvillehousewife » Wed May 20, 2009 5:19 pm

Ok, you know I'm REALLY fucking big on parents rights. I believe parents should have the right to call the medical shots for their kids as long as it CAUSES NO HARM.
i.e; I don't want to circumcise my son or give him 23 vaccinations (15 years ago only 11 were required, and I see a lot of healthy 15 year olds around)
But if you are allowed to functionally CHOOSE the death of your child when there is evidence that treatment would save a life... how is that not murder?

CPS removes children EVERY DAY for DANGER. As in, kid is healthy, kid is uninjured, but house has feces and electrical code nightmares. It's a bizarre hypocrisy.

Hell, we are even required to put our kids in child safety seats to reduce POSSIBILiTY of an injury in case of an accident. How can we be prosecuted for this but not withholding lifesaving treatment ala the Nuemann case?

I want the rights to call the shots on debatable medicine (vaccinations, circumcision, optional surgeries) but damn if I want to see kids suffer and die. I Just Don't Know.
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Re: A very disturbing story

Postby bitcharista » Wed May 20, 2009 5:29 pm

evansvillehousewife wrote:I want the rights to call the shots on debatable medicine (vaccinations, circumcision, optional surgeries) but damn if I want to see kids suffer and die. I Just Don't Know.


Ah but what if your child dies of a vaccine preventable disease.....should you be tried for murder?

Slippery slope.
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Re: A very disturbing story

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed May 20, 2009 5:50 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:The left demanded that the gov't stay out of the Terri Schiavo and Elian Gonzalez cases so what gives? You should all be thrilled.

So what's your point? In both those cases the courts (government) supported family/parental rights.
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Re: A very disturbing story

Postby Igor » Wed May 20, 2009 10:44 pm

evansvillehousewife wrote:I want the rights to call the shots on debatable medicine (vaccinations, circumcision, optional surgeries) but damn if I want to see kids suffer and die. I Just Don't Know.


For that matter (learning disabilities notwithstanding) would a child that is of legal age to get an abortion without parental notification be allowed to refuse their own cancer treatment?
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Re: A very disturbing story

Postby Jazznews » Thu May 21, 2009 1:46 am

Ned Flanders wrote:The left demanded that the gov't stay out of the Terri Schiavo and Elian Gonzalez cases so what gives? You should all be thrilled.

I


Terri Schiavo was essentially brain dead. Her husband didn't want her to suffer. But the right-wing Republicans insisted on getting involved and making a big deal of it, just to get votes.

Elian Gonzalez's father had legal custody of him.

Neither of these cases has anything to do with a child whose life could be saved with medical treatment, but his mother refuses to allow it. This is like the case of the mother who refused medical treatment for her daughter's diabetes, and the child died. It's neglect.
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Re: A very disturbing story

Postby GODDOG » Thu May 21, 2009 10:03 am

Jazznews wrote:a child whose life could be saved with medical treatment, but his mother refuses to allow it.

I've read all these post and everyone here seems to be forgetting one fact. It is the 13 year old boy who doesn't want the treatment. His parents are honoring his wishes. I've heard people bad mouth her and claim she doesn't care about her son. I say on the contrary, she loves him so much she is allowing him to decide his fate. If he was 5 or even 10 years old I'd say the parent has full control and responsibility to get the medical attention he needs. We try 11 and 12 year old kids as adults for murder and other crimes but when a 13 year old boy refuses to be poisoned by chemo-therapy you all scream like a bunch of nanny-staters. If you are pro-choice you should be applauding this kid. He is telling the gov't to get the hell out of his Doctor's office. Blame the mother all you want but I see her as honoring her son. plain...and simple. I hope none of you with kids ever have to go through cancer treatments for your little ones. Don't let our sensationalized media mind-fuck you into believing this mother is killing her son. Heis making his decision but because he is a minor his parents have to sign off on the paperwork.
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Re: A very disturbing story

Postby gargantua » Thu May 21, 2009 10:41 am

GODDOG wrote:
Jazznews wrote:a child whose life could be saved with medical treatment, but his mother refuses to allow it.

poisoned by chemo-therapy


If that were true, that the state wants to poison someone, I would agree with you.

But they don't. The issue is the availability of a life-saving treatment, that may have very unpleasant side effects. Claiming that the issue is that he doesn't want to be poisoned adds nothing to the debate, because it's inflammatory and simply not true.
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Re: A very disturbing story

Postby Ned Flounders » Thu May 21, 2009 10:42 am

Igor wrote:
evansvillehousewife wrote:I want the rights to call the shots on debatable medicine (vaccinations, circumcision, optional surgeries) but damn if I want to see kids suffer and die. I Just Don't Know.


For that matter (learning disabilities notwithstanding) would a child that is of legal age to get an abortion without parental notification be allowed to refuse their own cancer treatment?


I suspect that people who aren't already anti-abortion would say that's a false analogy. In this particular case, treatment would likely be successful, and refusing treatment is awfully close to suicide.

Having an abortion isn't suicide; in fact, depending on the age of the teenager it may be safer than continuing the pregnancy and giving birth[1]. You can argue that life begins at conception and therefore having an abortion is analogous to homicide, but others will obviously disagree, and that's a different matter anyway.

[1] Disclaimer -- Consider this statement "hearsay"; I've heard pro-choice activists make this claim, and I'm too lazy (or busy) right now to investigate it in any detail. It's not that important to my point anyway.
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