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Rahm Emmanuel "F*cking Retarded"

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Re: Rahm Emmanuel "F*cking Retarded"

Postby ilikebeans » Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:17 pm

boston_jeff wrote:Your metal abilities are sorely lacking dude.

No less offensive than calling him retarded.
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Re: Rahm Emmanuel "F*cking Retarded"

Postby boston_jeff » Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:53 pm

metal...damn some people are so dense.
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Re: Rahm Emmanuel "F*cking Retarded"

Postby Thusnelda » Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:48 pm

dave esmond wrote:Since Jeff thinks I'm a douche let me ask you.

He thinks moron and idiot don't have the same connotation as retard. You think they do, and when I think about I'd agree with you.

The problem comes when they are used to compare someone to an individual with developmental disabilities it seems. As I see it it's the comparison that's offensive to many folks. I get that.

But maybe I'm still wrong. What is the connotation you see?

Is there any word you do use to demean someones metal abilities, in frankly what is supposed to be a kinda offensive manner? Or should we just avoid going down that road all together? I admit up front that's getting to a PC area I'm not sure I agree with. But I'm willing to hear folks out.

This is a tough one as it's almost impossible to even have this conversation without offending someone it seems.

Thanks.


First, thanks for having an open conversation here. I am by no means an expert, but being the loudest does put me in that position sometimes :) Basically, if I say something, I just hope it'll make someone consider what they're doing a little more carefully, and I seem to have succeeded at that.

If Jeff doesn't have a problem with those things, that's up to him. He clearly gets what's going on with "retard" or "retarded," which are terms where pretty much everyone knows what the connotation is and uses them anyway. That's just ignorant. The other terms are terms I make an effort to avoid even though they're not as common and people don't really remember their origins anymore.

As to what I say when someone's done something clearly stupid... well, I tend to focus on the act rather than the person. "That's stupid/ridiculous/fucked up/unnecessary" as opposed to "HE'S so fucked up." Which is also a good way of indicating that it's something temporary, whether it's a momentary lapse or (grr) just the latest in a loooong string.

I guess for me it's a matter of personal responsibility. I'm picky and don't like saying things that are incorrect or uninformed, so another reason that saying something/someone is retarded just doesn't fly with me is simply that it's not accurate.

But don't get me wrong; I still swear like a sailor :)
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Re: Rahm Emmanuel "F*cking Retarded"

Postby jman111 » Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:57 am

Thusnelda wrote:As to what I say when someone's done something clearly stupid... well, I tend to focus on the act rather than the person. "That's stupid/ridiculous/fucked up/unnecessary" as opposed to "HE'S so fucked up." Which is also a good way of indicating that it's something temporary, whether it's a momentary lapse or (grr) just the latest in a loooong string.


I think that's what Rahm did. I don't believe the term "retarded" was applied to the actors, but to the action. The media is spinning this as a personal insult. I disagree. I think he was declaring his assessment of their plans (in a rather robust way).

It's an expression that offends some people- we get that. But he did exactly what you say you would do, except replaced "stupid" with "retarded."
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Re: Rahm Emmanuel "F*cking Retarded"

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:05 am

This tempest in a teapot is kinda dumb...oops, did I just offend the mute? I'd like to say my comment will probably fall on deaf ears... but that might piss off the hearing impaired.
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In that 'Mandy' does not shred

Postby Marvell » Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:16 am

dave esmond wrote:
Is there any word you do use to demean someones metal abilities, in frankly what is supposed to be a kinda offensive manner?


Manilowean.
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Re: Rahm Emmanuel "F*cking Retarded"

Postby pjbogart » Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:23 am

I guess I'm pretty good about not using the word "retarded" to describe people or their ideas, but I can't say that I've never said it and I've certainly thought it on numerous occasions. "Retarded" is often used as a synonym for "really stupid" but for most people it has the literal connotation as referring to someone who is mentally disabled in some way. What makes it offensive is that those who are disabled do not choose to be disabled. Most people tend to frown upon people who criticize others for having a big nose, being bald or being poor, especially if it's a child who has no earning power of their own.

But Republicans don't. They'd criticize people for anything at all and then brush off their own critics by claiming that they're being too sensitive. Ned seems to think that murdering innocent children is hunky dory just because they were born in the wrong country or into the wrong religion. Anyone remember internet posters pointing out how beautiful Michelle Malkin is and how ugly Helen Thomas is? Pretty childish, no?

It's all just cheap political points as far as I can see. The intellectually impaired folks who are watching FoxNews eat it up, the rest of us just snicker at the hypocrisy. I mean, these are people who wear t-shirts of Obama eating a banana swinging from a tree. Are we really all that worried that we might offend them?
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Re: Rahm Emmanuel "F*cking Retarded"

Postby dave esmond » Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:27 pm

Thusnelda wrote:First, thanks for having an open conversation here.


Thank you also. This really is one fo those things I struggle getting my mind completely around. It's more then just words or semantics to me.

I get not using the r word. I said right way I've tried to stop using it. Like any word "they don't like" I assume the reason a group doesn't want to hear a word anymore is because there's a lot of hurt and pain associated with it's use. I'm PC enough that "they don't like it" is a plenty good reason for me to stop using a hurtful word.

Being me, I have to then really think about what make the word or words hurtful.

I try and be a pretty nice person and I don't like being mean to people.

But at the same time I'm not the most sensitive person. I also swear like a sailor. And I like insults. Roasts are some of my favorite humor. And at the core of every insult is a comparison that can be hurtful and mean to a person or group who's being held up as the example of what one doesn't want to be.

I realize that doesn't make me the best person on the scale of human kindness.

So I get to.

The connotation of any insult is based on something being of less value and that why it's insulting to be called it.

when Jeff wrote :

Unless you happen to be developmentally disabled.


I read that as meaning developmentally disabled is an insult, something someone wouldn't want to be. That's how insults work.

I don't thinks anyone disagrees that taunting, or making fun of the disabled is anything but cruel. But what about using them as the negative side of an insult? Still seems wrong to me.

But I really like insults. And my non PC part doesn't think we should limit thoughts or speech just because it's insulting or hurtful.

So it goes on and on in head. If I was a better person maybe I'd be able to give the insults up completely. As it is I do try and at least think about what the words I use really mean.

But don't get me wrong; I still swear like a sailor :)


Me too. Like Rahm I can drop an f bomb pretty easily.

Thanks for you perspective on the whole thing. Some of us do try and listen.
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Re: Rahm Emmanuel "F*cking Retarded"

Postby Michael Patrick » Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:19 pm

I think anyone can be offended by anything if they really want to be.

But having said that... I have a daughter with autism. Before they added the autism diagnosis to the DSM, many kids with autism were diagnosed with mental retardation. Since my daughter's diagnosis I'm much more aware of the use of the term "retarded," and while I freely admit to having used it in the past, I have stopped using it at all.
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Re: Rahm Emmanuel "F*cking Retarded"

Postby Ducatista » Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:56 pm

I'd love to get the foron take on this little slice of Dutch life: just down the street from where I lived last summer is a restaurant staffed by people with Down syndrome. It's called Downey's.

Is that mind-bogglingly insensitive, or does it reveal a healthy, equable cultural mindset?
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Re: Rahm Emmanuel "F*cking Retarded"

Postby Ned Flanders » Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:08 pm

Ducatista wrote:I'd love to get the foron take on this little slice of Dutch life: just down the street from where I lived last summer is a restaurant staffed by people with Down syndrome. It's called Downey's.

Is that mind-bogglingly insensitive, or does it reveal a healthy, equable cultural mindset?

Seinfeldian.
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Re: Rahm Emmanuel "F*cking Retarded"

Postby Maeve » Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:58 pm

I think the name “Downeys” reveals (as so much of Dutch life apparently does) a “healthy, equable cultural mindset.”

Nobody’s trying to get rid of the D-words.

A restaurant staffed by developmentally disabled people called “Retards,” on the other hand – now that would be “mind-bogglingly insensitive.”

Pat Healy: My real passion is my hobby.
Mary: Really, what's that?
Pat Healy: I work with retards.
Mary: Isn't that a little, uhm, politically incorrect?
Pat Healy: Well, heh, to hell with that... no one's going to tell me who I can and can't work with, right?
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Re: Rahm Emmanuel "F*cking Retarded"

Postby pjbogart » Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:17 pm

Maeve wrote:A restaurant staffed by developmentally disabled people called “Retards,” on the other hand – now that would be “mind-bogglingly insensitive.”


I think I saw that restaurant in "Idiocracy."
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Re: Rahm Emmanuel "F*cking Retarded"

Postby Thusnelda » Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:30 pm

dave esmond wrote:But I really like insults.


There's elegance in simplicity. "Fuck you, you fucking fuck" is always appropriate.
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Re: Rahm Emmanuel "F*cking Retarded"

Postby Bwis53 » Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:37 pm

Michael Patrick wrote:I think anyone can be offended by anything if they really want to be.

But having said that... I have a daughter with autism. Before they added the autism diagnosis to the DSM, many kids with autism were diagnosed with mental retardation. Since my daughter's diagnosis I'm much more aware of the use of the term "retarded," and while I freely admit to having used it in the past, I have stopped using it at all.


My son was in the same Montessori, as some Chicago Bear's kid. The teacher said my son wasn't "keeping up". It was a park district leader who got me to public special preschool testing. I'll never forget, my son was 2, on my lap, still not talking much. We sat in the office of a gifted public servant. I asked: You mean he's retarded? She said:No just developmentally delayed, his brain will learn to work around the circuits. Both my guys grew into gifted geekdom.

I've had the luck to be corrected and grow a little thicker skin too.
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