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Oh, dear dear dear ...

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Oh, dear dear dear ...

Postby kurt_w » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:46 am

This week, GOP Rep. Peter King (R-NY) is holding congressional hearings into the alleged radicalization of Muslims in the US.

Only one problem -- Rep. King himself used to be a radical supporter of IRA terrorism. From today's NY Times:

Rep. Peter King wrote:"We must pledge ourselves to support those brave men and women who this very moment are carrying forth the struggle against British imperialism in the streets of Belfast and Derry [...]

If civilians are killed in an attack on a military installation, it is certainly regrettable, but I will not morally blame the I.R.A. for it."


Rep. King was thrown out of a Belfast courtroom by a judge who called him "an obvious collaborator". In 1984, the US Secret Service investigated him as a national security risk. He refuses to apologize for his longstanding support for IRA terrorism, which resulted in the deaths of nearly 2000 people.

"I understand why people who are misinformed might see a parallel. The fact is, the I.R.A. never attacked the United States. And my loyalty is to the United States."

This man is a disgrace.
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Re: Oh, dear dear dear ...

Postby Ned Flanders » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:12 am

I dont' see the connection...
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Re: Oh, dear dear dear ...

Postby Average Joe » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:20 am

Ned Flanders wrote:I dont' see the connection...


You would if he was a Democrat.
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Re: Oh, dear dear dear ...

Postby Madcity Expat » Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:20 am

Not meant to be a defense of Rep. King who clearly is skating on thin ice on the pond of hypocrisy - however, since St Patrick's Day is upon us, alow me observe the old trope that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Provisional IRA activity increased markedly, and was more widely regarded as legitimate by the Catholic community in the North, after the British imposed internment on the North in 1971 (i.e. suspension of Habeas Corpus - overwhelmingly used against Catholics) and, especially, after the Army open fire on a civil rights march in 1972 (the "Bloody Sunday" incident). At that early phase, in particular, the Provos were regarded as acting in defense of the Catholic community in the wake of rising militancy in the Unionist circles, the introduction of the British Army in the North, and the Army and police acting in defense of the Unionist/Protestant ascendency (internment, Bloody Sunday, etc) in the North.

And, I might add, the existence of Northern Ireland was only conjured up during the treaty negotiations of 1921 at the end of the Anglo-Irish War - "Three quarters of a nation once again!" - was a contemporary sarcasm. And that result after Unionists in the North began drilling and arming with the stated intention to take up arms against anyone who tried to force independence from Great Britain upon them, including Great Britain (yes, militant Unionists were willing to fight the British to stay part of Britain).

And the 1921 Anglo-Irish War, of course, was the culmination of 300 years of brutal and repressive English imperialism in Ireland... but I'll refrain from going any further down that road in this post.

All of which is to say that, if popular resistance to imperial repression can ever be regarded as legitimate, then the (some) activities of the IRA during the Troubles (earlier on?) might be so regarded.

Back to Rep King (sorry for the hijack), if one supports a movement that can be interpreted as terrorist (arguably or no...), then one ought to refrain from orchestrating congressional hearings on another movement that could be interpreted as terrorist - lest one be rightly accused of hypocrisy. All of which is to say, Kurt, that I agree with you on the overall point – with the above qualifier duly noted.

And, it's nice to see you back on TDPF, Kurt. Your return finally forced me out of Lurk (dammit!).
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Re: Oh, dear dear dear ...

Postby kurt_w » Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:43 am

Good to hear from you again, MCE. I should have known that posting something related to the "land of saints and scholars" would draw you out. Hope things are going well for you and the family.

We've been having a great winter here in my "undisclosed location" as long as one likes skiing (it's snowing again as I write this). I wasn't intending to delurk and return to foronland, but with Wisconsin being in the news for a month I kind of got sucked back in.
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Re: Oh, dear dear dear ...

Postby Madcity Expat » Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:33 am

Family's great - we've added one since the last I was a frequent poster. So we're pretty busy - but I wouldn't have it any other way. For some reason I pictured your "undisclosed location" out east, but your skiiing reference has me thinking west. I suppose you could still be living in Vermont, or there'bouts.

I'm still teaching as an adjunct. Keeps be busy, and I like the work, but the pay...well, you know. It's a tough market out there.
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Re: Oh, dear dear dear ...

Postby npler » Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:26 am

Madcity Expat wrote:Not meant to be a defense of Rep. King who clearly is skating on thin ice on the pond of hypocrisy - however, since St Patrick's Day is upon us, alow me observe the old trope that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.


That is very true; I remember back during the bad old days of apartheid there were people on the other side of the divestiture and related debates who would counter suggestions of some type of assistance to the opposition by saying that Nelson Mandela, the ANC, SWAPO, and the like were terrorists and/or Communists. The truth is that the aforementioned were freedom fighters and whatever connection they had to the Soviet Union or others of the same ilk was much more nuanced, to say the least, and when circumstances changed, they put down their arms, as did most of both sides in the Northern Ireland conflict.

If the hearings he is proposing show that the Bin Laden type of radicalism disguising itself as Islam is present in vanishingly small quantities, even a smaller percentage of the Muslim community that the overall population as I suspect may be the case, how likely would Rep. King be willing to trumpet that news? I actually don't know - maybe that is what will happen.
Last edited by npler on Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Oh, dear dear dear ...

Postby snoqueen » Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:30 am

All true, but keep in mind that history is written by the winners.
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Re: Oh, dear dear dear ...

Postby gozer » Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:49 pm

the level of knowledge about islam and muslims amongst the right in the united states is generally very poor with some notable exceptions like the grover norquist crowd and some others, and media people especially need to look into it more before casting aspersions and so on. it could very well be the case with a large fraction their counterparts on the left too and it is also the case with respect to many other religions, countries, and regions as well although those come up not as often.

the hysteria about sharia especially amongst presenters and commentators on f.n.c. and its radio and print relatives is one example. roman catholicism, eastern christianity, and judaism seem to throw a lot of journalists of all stripes for a loop whenever israel, lebanon, syria, kurds, or russia's near abroad comes up. some of the things i hear about iran and shi'ites and twelvers in particular...well, as milli vanilli sang:

"nein, nein, nein! dieses ist nicht recht -- dieses ist nicht sogar falsch."

then there is kashmir, north africa, anything historical about ireland or continental europe, québec, indonesia...

some of it from all over the political spectrum may be hateful or spiteful or merely the product of old fashioned cussedness but i think it is more laziness and stupidity and lack of sophistication. same as everything else...
it is not heresy, and i will not recant.
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swapo...was: Re: Oh, dear dear dear ...

Postby gozer » Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:28 am

...to the opposition by saying that Nelson Mandela, the ANC, SWAPO, and the like, ...


there is an organisation in madison which is commonly known as the shorewood wife-swapping club (whether this is shorewood hills has been unknown to those who have shared the anecdotes over the years; the organisation appears to predate the village of a similar name carved from sections 9 and 10 or thereabouts of the town of madison by up to a quarter century and i have no idea what connexion if any they have either to them, the shorewood in milwaukee county, or something else, or even if it is a location at all) which considered changing the name as the term "wife-swapping" was believed to be archaic and under-represent the objective of the organisation by 50 per cent or something. some people were very pleased with simplifying the name of their group to "swap-o", or "swapo-rama" or something, but one of their members pointed out that "swapo" could be said to be already taken; apparently they felt the same way about swapo-rama or swap-o-rama or whatever. i would think that it would be all sort of semionomatopoeiaic, subonomatopoeiaic, or whatever one would call it, for the words "swoop" and "swipe", which i would think both the madison-area high-energy social club and the liberation movement in the country formerly known as south-west africa would both find groovy...but that's just me...

does anyone know what, if anything, was the connexion or reason for the smattering of white and red t-shirts that just said "swapo" in the crowd for the uw championship for ice hockey that one time? it would have had to be 1990 -- madison, detroit, milwaukee, chicago, all for a while it seemed?
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