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Wisconsin CCW licensee takes on armed robber

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Wisconsin CCW licensee takes on armed robber

Postby Dangerousman » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:53 am

The Aldi customer who shot an armed robber in the store Monday won't face any criminal charges, prosecutors confirmed Friday. Milwaukee County District Attorney John Chisholm said the law allows use of reasonable force in threatening situations, regardless of whether the shooter has a concealed weapons permit. "He disrupted an act that potentially exposed himself and others to great bodily harm," Chisholm said. Video footage from the store showed "he acted reasonably and in a controlled manner during the encounter," Chisholm said. The customer, Nazir Al-Mujaahid of Milwaukee, held a news conference to discuss the incident. Al-Mujaahid, 35, called it nothing to brag about, but that "sometimes you have to do what you have to do."

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/138626059.html

I remember reading comments not too long ago along the lines of "who needs to carry a gun in a grocery store?" and characterizing the CCW crowd as predominately a bunch of middle aged white guys. Can't wait to hear your takes on this story that you all been avoiding....
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Re: Wisconsin CCW licensee takes on armed robber

Postby Dangerousman » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:14 pm

Over 200 views and a week and a half and not a single word from the critics of concealed carry. The cat has your collective tongues.

I'll toss this into the pot. How about this recent report by the Cato Institute called "Tough Targets: when criminals face armed resistance from citizens"

http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/78800063
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Re: Wisconsin CCW licensee takes on armed robber

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:23 pm

Your buddy, Jesus Gonzalez.
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Re: Wisconsin CCW licensee takes on armed robber

Postby massimo » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:52 pm

So sounds like this guy is the rightie equivalent of scooter boy...
TMFA wrote:At the news conference, Al-Mujaahid plugged his new website, ccwadvocates.com. It reads in part:

Learn from Real People like you and me, normal Ordinary Citizens that have awaken the spirit of personal responsibility and freedom that this country was founded upon!

Sign up to hear exclusively from the Man that stopped an Armed Robbery at a Milwaukee Aldi store. Many have called him a hero, we like to call him our brother!


Do you think he gives capital-lettered emphasis to "Real People" and "Ordinary Citizens" to convey to his conservative brethren that he's not, actually, a terrorist?
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Re: Wisconsin CCW licensee takes on armed robber

Postby chance » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:07 pm

He fired six or seven shots from about 20 feet away, and hit the guy only twice, not injuring him seriously enough with those two shots to prevent him from fleeing. If this is the kind of marksmanship we can expect from concealed carriers, I'd say we're likely in for some collateral damage sooner or later.
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Re: Wisconsin CCW licensee takes on armed robber

Postby snoqueen » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:46 pm

I too am concerned about injury to bystanders, and I will continue to shop in places with no-weapons signs out front. One person with a gun is bad enough, two are worse not better.

I didn't reply to the original posting earlier because I thought we'd done this topic to death and I'd already made my opinions clear. To be specific: more guns make possible more gun errors and misuse, more domestic and accidental injuries (deaths) in the home, and more reliance on lethal force to solve problems that could be solved other ways.

I am not against shooting sports, marksmanship competition and practice, not against hunting, not against hobbyists who collect guns in a responsible way. I am not for a law that prevents people from keeping a gun in their home although I am for safety regulations especially where children are present. I am for licensing gun owners and making the names and addresses of license holders public with restrictions for people who have domestic violence concerns. I am for closing loopholes on trade show sales and similar loopholes. I believe a discussion on limiting the size of weapons civilians may possess is overdue.

I have read data that show concealed carry really doesn't have an effect one way or the other on crime (not accidents, crime) and I find this data the most compelling of all the variously-slanted stuff I've looked at.

And I would appreciate armed strangers not trying to manage my own personal safety. That's my business.

I don't intend to debate the whole issue again. Others have the right to their opinions as always, we don't have to agree, and there's little chance we ever will agree. I appreciate the chance to read the reasoning behind other viewpoints. It was an eye-opener.

I do appreciate the fact this shooter was not charged or detained, since he was acting within his understanding of the laws we have now. At the same time I don't think he's making our country stronger or better in any way --just more violent. At least he didn't choose to carry a great big gun that killed his target, who was not committing any capital crime. The guy(s) just wanted some money, which is probably covered by the store's insurance policy.

The store should install and use a floor safe and keep no more than a handful of change in the till. That would probably take care of repeat robbery attempts.
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Re: Wisconsin CCW licensee takes on armed robber

Postby jman111 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:54 pm

Agreed- no need to flog this deceased equine.
That said, I would caution against the attempted use of proof by anecdote here to prove the effectiveness and validity of the concealed carry laws.
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Re: Wisconsin CCW licensee takes on armed robber

Postby jonnygothispen » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:09 pm

You can't judge any issue using one example. And obviously, one "good" example still doesn't mean there should be open season for easy access to guns. Something D-man doesn't want to touch on.
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Re: Wisconsin CCW licensee takes on armed robber

Postby Dangerousman » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:33 pm

jonnygothispen wrote:You can't judge any issue using one example. And obviously, one "good" example still doesn't mean there should be open season for easy access to guns. Something D-man doesn't want to touch on.


Jonny, if you think guns have "easy access" then you must believe that voting has "way easy access." Do you?

Why don't you drive to Gander Mountain and buy a pistol then report back to use how easy it was.

I'll save you the trip.

Show ID:

Voting - yes
Purchasing the gun - yes

Paying 13 dollars for a background check:

Voting - no
Purchasing the gun - yes

Being asked:

If you are under indictment for felony...
Have you ever been convicted of a felony...
If you are a fugitive from justice...
If you are an unlawful user or addicted to marijuana, any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug or controlled substance...
If you have been adjudicated mentally defective, incompetent or ever been committed to a mental institution...
If you have been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions...
If you are subject to a court order restraining from harassing, stalking, or threatening...
If you have been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence...
If you have renounced your citizenship...
If you are an alien illegally in the United States...
If you are a nonimmigrant alien...

Voting - no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no

Purchasing the gun - yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes

Having a background check conducted:

Voting - no

Purchasing the gun - yes

Returning to complete the transaction after 48 hour waiting period:

Voting - no

Purchasing the gun - yes

Oh, and do you have anything to say to Henry about using "one example?" (and an irrelevant example, at that)
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Re: Wisconsin CCW licensee takes on armed robber

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:39 pm

I just countered your one example with one of my own. And while your buddy (now serving 20 years for homicide) was open carrying (this was before Wisconsin's concealed carry law was enacted), he was a strong proponent for easing up gun laws. Just like you.
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Re: Wisconsin CCW licensee takes on armed robber

Postby Dangerousman » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:49 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:I just countered your one example with one of my own. And while your buddy (now serving 20 years for homicide) was open carrying (this was before Wisconsin's concealed carry law was enacted), he was a strong proponent for easing up gun laws. Just like you.


Oh really? Would you care to list which guns laws either Gonzalez or I have stated we want "eased up?"

My "one" example is augmented by the Cato report which is based on 5000 examples. And those are just the ones they found that made the news.
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Re: Wisconsin CCW licensee takes on armed robber

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:03 pm

Dangerousman wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:I just countered your one example with one of my own. And while your buddy (now serving 20 years for homicide) was open carrying (this was before Wisconsin's concealed carry law was enacted), he was a strong proponent for easing up gun laws. Just like you.


Oh really? Would you care to list which guns laws either Gonzalez or I have stated we want "eased up?"

Concealed carry. You both supported that "easing up" of Wisconsin's gun laws. Did you forget?
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Re: Wisconsin CCW licensee takes on armed robber

Postby jonnygothispen » Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:41 pm

Dangerousman wrote:
jonnygothispen wrote:You can't judge any issue using one example. And obviously, one "good" example still doesn't mean there should be open season for easy access to guns. Something D-man doesn't want to touch on.


Jonny, if you think guns have "easy access" then you must believe that voting has "way easy access." Do you?)
I'd just buy one from a private dealer at a public gun show. Background check required? No. ID required? No.
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Re: Wisconsin CCW licensee takes on armed robber

Postby rabble » Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:06 pm

jonnygothispen wrote:
Dangerousman wrote:
jonnygothispen wrote:You can't judge any issue using one example. And obviously, one "good" example still doesn't mean there should be open season for easy access to guns. Something D-man doesn't want to touch on.


Jonny, if you think guns have "easy access" then you must believe that voting has "way easy access." Do you?)
I'd just buy one from a private dealer at a public gun show. Background check required? No. ID required? No.

That make it easier to buy a gun than vote, does it not?
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Re: Wisconsin CCW licensee takes on armed robber

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:08 pm

Dman, do we need ever more hoops to jump through in order to vote? We all know that votes can kill.
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