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What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby jjoyce » Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:16 pm

Larry, this is why we love ya.
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby Stebben84 » Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:20 pm

Larry Kaufmann wrote: The whole thing has been a circus...


Forgot to add the Catholic church to that list. They are actually the ones that stirred things up to begin with.
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby pjbogart » Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:32 pm

Larry Kaufmann wrote:Fluke, for her childish and misleading Congressional testimony; and Limbaugh, for his similarly childish smear. The whole thing has been a circus...


Are you simply chiding Fluke for what you perceive as childish testimony or are you literally comparing it to the "similarly childish" smear by Rush Limbaugh? Did you find one more offensive than the other?
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby Meade » Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:33 pm

Larry Kaufmann wrote:BTW, there's more than enough absurdity to go around on this issue - Obama for putting the whole thing in motion, and adopting the individual mandate (which he excoriated Hillary Clinton for supporting) as the centerpiece of his health care "reform" plan; the Democratic Congress, for passing such a grotesque, poorly-conceived piece of legislation; Sebelius and Obama again, for cynically ginning up the phony "contraception" issue; Santorum, for foolishly jumping on the bandwagon and thoroughly confusing the issue (and yes, I have no doubt in his heart of hearts Rick Santorum does want to impose his morality via legislation); Fluke, for her childish and misleading Congressional testimony; and Limbaugh, for his similarly childish smear. The whole thing has been a circus...

Thanks to Larry for bringing this whole thing in for a landing.
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:40 pm

Except it was the Catholic Church which "ginned up" the phony contraception issue, even though many of their hospitals already provide health insurance that covers it.
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby pjbogart » Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:57 pm

If all of the missteps in this circus have been made by Democrats, one has to wonder why Republicans are running away from it so fast.

And for the thousandth time, if birth control pills are such a "grave moral wrong" then why are Catholic hospitals and clinics currently prescribing them? Surely a moral wrong in Atlanta is also a moral wrong in Madison.
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby narcoleptish » Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:21 pm

Oy vey..... every once in awhile we get one of these traffic accident threads that I just have to keep driving by.

If/when healthcare reform fails and goes away, I assume that the anti-reform crowd, were they to be faced with a pre-existing condition-inability to get insurance situation, would simply put their fate in the hands of god amd go home to heal or die. I assume there would be no thought of partaking in any government subsidized healthcare for the uninsured. Right?

Or will you be like a guy I know here in Dane county, property owner, worth a decent amount of money. Very right leaning, anti- government, anti-welfare, pro-pull yourself up by your bootstraps kinda guy. Comes down with a serious health issue a few years ago and when faced with the prospect of staggering treatment costs, not covered by his shitty private insurance, transfers his ownership of everything he has to someone else so he can go on the government dole. Guy's worth 50X what I'm worth and I'm helping pay for his medicine.

If you're against government healthcare, fine, just walk the walk. If you're only willing to walk it until it negatively affects you, then Fuck you, 50X.
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby snoqueen » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:46 pm



That's almost as good as what I got the day I googled Carter killing somebody's cat.
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby acereraser » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:57 pm

Meade wrote:
Larry Kaufmann wrote:...Fluke, for her childish and misleading Congressional testimony...

Thanks to Larry for bringing this whole thing in for a landing.


I realize you pretty much asked my question already pjbogart, but this is really sticking in my craw. Could one of you tell us all what you think Fluke did that you deem childish and misleading?
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby snoqueen » Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:07 pm

Oh, it's just another way they spell "slut."
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby pjbogart » Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:09 pm

acereraser wrote:Could one of you tell us all what you think Fluke did that you deem childish and misleading?


If you look at Larry's post, he carefully minimizes all faults, including Fluke's. Limbaugh was childish, Fluke was childish, Santorum was silly and got tricked into an argument. The devil, as you can probably guess, was Barack Hussein Obama. From front to finish, all blame is squarely on Obama.

And, as Limbaugh pointed out, he was sorry for stooping to "the Left's" level. So apparently calling Fluke a slut, prostitute and suggesting she film her sexual encounters for the nation to watch was all simply Rush stooping to Obama's level. He apologizes, sincerely.
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby Detritus » Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:02 pm

Ten pages, 146 (now 147) posts, and I still don't know how contraception constitutes a grave moral wrong.

Time's up! Put down your pencils, pass your papers to the front, and put your heads down on your desks until the end of the hour.
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby Kenneth Burns » Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:57 pm

There's food for thought in the Roman Catholic catechism:
Thus the innate language that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory language, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality.

If I'm reading this right: The church says husband and wife should give themselves to each other totally. If they use contraception, they're not doing that. Ergo, it's immoral.

Is what I've written accurate? I have no particular grasp of this stuff. I'm not Roman Catholic. They don't take my kind.
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby ralphie w » Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:03 pm

Yes! As Tony Plush might say "Ahhh...gotta go back to the A.V. club!!!" I'm Cookie Monster and Kirk Cameron left me behind, by the way.
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby doppel » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:15 pm

Legitimate question that I don't know the answer to. I don't think using birth control is a "grave moral concern" so please don't jump on me for asking this. I beleive this countries problems would be lessened overall if unplanned and or under-parented children were not conceived in the first place. Are insurance companies required to pay for birth control for men? While they can't get pregnant, they are responsible, financally and morally, for any offspring conceived due to having sex with women. They do not always know if their lover is using birth control, or has done it properly. Does "Obamacare" and it's insurance mandates currently provide condoms or vasectomies for men? If not, is this fair or constitutional? Or in other words, is there equal protection under the law?
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