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The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

If it's news, but not politics, then it goes here.

Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:21 pm

Sandi wrote:That the law is flawed, is just your opinion, and and unpopular one at that.

Huh?
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Sandi » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:59 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
Sandi wrote:That the law is flawed, is just your opinion, and and unpopular one at that.

Huh?



Google . is your . friend
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby GordonFreeman » Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:21 pm

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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Sandi » Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:29 pm

GordonFreeman wrote:Superhero story falling apart:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023333867


Apparently you think everything that is reported on Facebook is real, and if not it is... What?
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:34 pm

Sandi wrote:
GordonFreeman wrote:Superhero story falling apart:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023333867


Apparently you think everything that is reported on Facebook is real, and if not it is... What?

Says the one who links to right wing blogs for her "proof."
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Sandi » Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:50 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Says the one who links to right wing blogs for her "proof."


I link right and left sources.

However when one can't attack the message, they have no other options left but to attack the messenger.

Try again but address the content not me.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:01 pm

Then state your mexsage in your own words. Don't merely link to someone's opinion.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Sandi » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:25 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Then state your mexsage in your own words. Don't merely link to someone's opinion.


Geez, quit trolling. To bad these forums are not moderated.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Dangerousman » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:47 pm

Sandi wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Another juror is speaking out.

Zimmerman juror: He 'got away with murder'

In related news, there is a growing movement to boycott travel to Florida unless they get rid of their stand your ground law.


From your link:

"You can't put the man in jail even though in our hearts we felt he was guilty," she said. "But we had to grab our hearts and put it aside and look at the evidence."


Unlike many people here, this juror is intelligent enough to put emotion aside.


Also this:

Juror B29 agreed with B37 that the case was never about race, despite accusations by the prosecution that Zimmerman had profiled Martin when he called police to report someone acting suspiciously in the community near Orlando.


and this:

On the second day of deliberations she realized there was not enough proof to convict Zimmerman of murder or manslaughter under Florida law, she said.

When asked whether the case should have gone to trial, the juror said: "I don't think so." She added: "I felt like this was a publicity stunt."
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Dangerousman » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:03 pm

penquin wrote:
Dangerousman wrote:No, smoking pot has nothing to do with it. His behavior in general was sociopathic.


Walking slow? Wearing a hoodie? Carry a bag of skittles?

:roll:

Seriously...the reasons people keep giving for Zimmerman to be suspicious of this kid (He wanted to be a gangsta, he was mentally ill, he smoked pot) are all reasons that came out afterwards, as if those are all justifications for someone to be hunted down and killed...even if the hunter wasn't aware of those allegations at the time.


Well, as I stated a long time ago-- and read back if you have to-- stuff about Trayvon Martin that came out after he was shot wasn't relevant to whether Zimmerman was justified in shooting. Your self-defense claim has to be based on what you reasonably believed at the time, not what is discovered ex post facto.

"Hunted down and killed?" Really? You guys need to come to grips with reality and using loaded terms like "stalking" and "hunting down." Highly inaccurate descriptions of what Zimmerman did. If those are the terms you think apply, then when Zimmerman went looking for an address to give to the police then you might as well said he "stalked" or "hunted down" the address.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby GordonFreeman » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:54 am

We all know the truth is usually somewhere in the middle. In this case, however, Zpussy clearly went looking for trouble. He was gonna bag him a nigger tonight. All the intent is on the 911 call.

It's clear as clear can be. If Zpussy was a nigger and TM was white, you gun loving right-wingers would all up in a tizzy if the nigger got off (which never would have happened). But us liberals would still see it the same way, Zpussy was the agressor, Zpussy could have left at anytime, Zpussy killed TM.

If you are stalking a child armed with Skittles and you have had previous "run-ins" with the law and you have a gun, you are the agressor. You are the murderer.

Juror statements that coming out are disturbing. How is he not guilty of at least manslaughter?
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby snoqueen » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:37 am

And regarding the Wisconsin legal definition of stalking, here is one of the many available discussions. On this page is a link to the statute itself:

http://www.uwlax.edu/violenceprevention/stalking.htm

It's easy to fit GZ's actions toward TM into these listed definitions. He did both the first and second qualifying actions: maintaining a visual or physical proximity to the victim and approaching or confronting the victim. We can pretty much rule out the notion these actions were taken in a spirit of friendliness or a wish to socialize because GZ already called in a complaint about TM. This was a distinctly unfriendly encounter.

The article also says

Stalking is series of actions that cause a person to feel fear...

Incidents can occur on a regular basis (every day/week/month) or infrequently.


While in cases where the victim seeks police protection stalking is a repeated pattern, any one incident is part of the pattern. GZ killed TM after stalking him exactly once so the pattern never developed, but what he did was exactly what the stalking warnings tell people to take seriously. Being followed quite obviously caused TM fear, as shown by his conversation with his girlfriend at the time. Being purposely followed by someone you find creepy is intimidating. I think we established that already on this topic.

It's interesting how the stalking law in a mirror image of the stand your ground law: if you subjectively feel fear or threat, the law covers your situation. So don't go saying subjective mental state counts in one instance but not in the other.

I believe it is perfectly accurate to call GZ's actions toward TM stalking as described in WI law. I haven't bothered to look up FL law because the legalities of stalking did not come into play in the trial. That does not mean the word is inappropriate in discussing the behavior in question.


And I'm not surprised the crash-rescue story is falling apart. That was one far-fetched tale to begin with and my first response was "yeah, right." I'm sure plenty of other people felt the same way.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Rich Schultz » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:14 am

snoqueen wrote:And I'm not surprised the crash-rescue story is falling apart. That was one far-fetched tale to begin with and my first response was "yeah, right." I'm sure plenty of other people felt the same way.


Henry Vilas wrote:
Sandi wrote:
GordonFreeman wrote:Superhero story falling apart:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023333867


Apparently you think everything that is reported on Facebook is real, and if not it is... What?

Says the one who links to right wing blogs for her "proof."


Instead of arguing about the reliability of left and right wing blogs let's see who's sources hold up. If the Zimmerman rescue story was bogus it's going to be a big media story. When this doesn't happen will you quit being chumped by the Democratic Underground?
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby wack wack » Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:19 am

Dangerousman wrote:"Hunted down and killed?" Really? You guys need to come to grips with reality and using loaded terms like "stalking" and "hunting down." Highly inaccurate descriptions of what Zimmerman did. If those are the terms you think apply, then when Zimmerman went looking for an address to give to the police then you might as well said he "stalked" or "hunted down" the address.


Zimmerman did not have to follow an address to find one.

Zimmerman saw Martin, then followed him, then lost him, then found him again, then killed him.

What the hell do you think "hunting down" means?
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby peripat » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:02 am

Very clearly stalked a kid and murdered a kid, all the gun apologists and racists to the contrary. Why do gun lovers always feel they need to side with anyone who kills with a gun? Can they never get past that "guns are good and anyone who shoots one off and is chastised for doing so is just a martyr being victimized by the godless gun haters" crap? Or are all gun lovers just frightened children who have replaced their teddy bears with guns? The emotional reaction would tend to suggest that.
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