MOBILE USERS: m.isthmus.com
Connect with Isthmus on Twitter · Facebook · Flickr · Newsletters · Instagram 
Thursday, August 28, 2014 |  Madison, WI: 60.0° F  Fair
Collapse Photo Bar

The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

If it's news, but not politics, then it goes here.

Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby snoqueen » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:36 pm

Correction: I don't think there was any "neighborhood watch" program at all. I have not seen one shred of information saying this was a group activity, it had any organization, it had any training program, protocol for action when suspicious activity is seen, or volunteer schedule, it had any support from the neighbors in the neighborhood, it had any working relationship with the town or the police, or it had any existence at all outside the mind of George Zimmerman.

If I'm wrong show the information.

In Madison and other places, where we have a neighborhood watch program all those features are part of it except maybe a schedule where volunteers patrol various days or various shifts.
Last edited by snoqueen on Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
snoqueen
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 11421
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:42 pm

Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Bludgeon » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:37 pm

HawkHead wrote:How about a homeowner's boy friend's son is walking home and gets shot by the over zealous head of the neighborhood watch.


Then it wouldn't be, as Rachel Jeantel describes, a "racial thing." And the POTUS wouldn'a stuck his big toe in it; and there would be no political careers to be made out of pretending the prosecution has a case, because it wouldn't be on television.
Bludgeon
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1291
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:27 am

Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Huckleby » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:44 pm

Bludgeon wrote:I think that "letter" Jeantel "wrote" and "couldn't read" was a lot of fraudulent bullshit.


Just a heads-up: she dictated it to a friend who actually wrote it. Jeantel can't read or write cursive.

BTW, Jeantel was born in Haiti, her first language was spanish, her second language was a french creole. She ain't too swift in English, get over it. I think she could be smart, but she is obviously poor, uneducated, and has maturity of a 16-year-old.

I find Jeantel to be extremely credible. She is on the surface - WYSIWYG. One of the "lies" attributed to her is that she said she was in the hospital in order to get out of going to the wake. This is called a social excuse, we all tell them. Her desire to not go to the wake is understandable, she explained that well.

The second lie is that she said she was 16 (a minor) so there would be less publicity about her when she was being interviewed. A dumb-ass move, but a teenage dumb-ass move.
Last edited by Huckleby on Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Huckleby
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 6438
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:12 pm
Location: parents' basement

Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby HawkHead » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:46 pm

Bludgeon wrote:
HawkHead wrote:How about a homeowner's boy friend's son is walking home and gets shot by the over zealous head of the neighborhood watch.


Then it wouldn't be, as Rachel Jeantel describes, a "racial thing." And the POTUS wouldn'a stuck his big toe in it; and there would be no political careers to be made out of pretending the prosecution has a case, because it wouldn't be on television.

Ask Jodi Arias about that one.
HawkHead
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 774
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:29 pm

Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby HawkHead » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:52 pm

There are certainly racial undertones in the trial but I believe the main issue is the ability of your child to walk to the store and get home without being shot by someone who thinks he is protecting the neighborhood.

I wouldn't care what color person shot my son it is never appropriate for someone in a neighborhood watch to shoot anyone. We have had a few break ins in our neighborhood and over and over we get communications that say to report suspicious behavior to the police and not to confront anyone.
HawkHead
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 774
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:29 pm

Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Bludgeon » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:54 pm

Huckleby wrote:Just a heads-up: she dictated it to a friend who actually wrote it. Jeantel can't read or write cursive.

BTW, Jeantel was born in Haiti, her first language was spanish, her second language was a french creole. She ain't too swift in English, get over it. I think she could be smart, but she is obviously poor, uneducated, and has maturity of a 16-year-old.

I find Jeantel to be extremely credible. She is on the surface - WYSIWYG. One of the "lies" attributed to her is that she said she was in the hospital in order to get out of going to the wake. This is called a social excuse, we all tell them. Her desire to not go to the wake is understandable, she explained that well.


No offense, but I think everything we know about her is extremely superficial. We're hearing through the filter of how she's portrayed by the prosecution in the media. I personally don't consider the date on the letter or the ostensible purpose of the letter to be credible. In my opinion (and what seems apparent to others), judging by her testimony the letter very well may have been written under duress or collusion with the prosecution. It might be in her vernacular but to me it reads like a guided statement, all we have is the word of Jeantel and that of other parties friendly to the prosecution.

Whatever else we can say, my impression is that she's a person could not (at all) manage as a witness without intensive coaching by the state attorney team.
Bludgeon
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1291
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:27 am

Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Bludgeon » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:58 pm

HawkHead wrote:There are certainly racial undertones in the trial but I believe the main issue is the ability of your child to walk to the store and get home without being shot by someone who thinks he is protecting the neighborhood.

I wouldn't care what color person shot my son it is never appropriate for someone in a neighborhood watch to shoot anyone. We have had a few break ins in our neighborhood and over and over we get communications that say to report suspicious behavior to the police and not to confront anyone.


I can't really disagree with any of that other than to say, all facts of the matter aside, it's the forced 'moral outrage' that puts this case in the position it's in nationally. My interest in the case is just in observing what at this point has become a bizarre political undertones that make this case noteworthy.
Bludgeon
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1291
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:27 am

Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby snoqueen » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:10 pm

...my impression is that she's a person could not (at all) manage as a witness without intensive coaching by the state attorney team.


Let's be real about this. If the case is being handled in a professional manner, ALL the witnesses have been rehearsed and coached. That's part of the process. It would be crazy to put somebody up there and have no real idea how they will behave or respond to an unexpected question.
snoqueen
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 11421
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:42 pm

Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Bludgeon » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:12 pm

snoqueen wrote:
...my impression is that she's a person could not (at all) manage as a witness without intensive coaching by the state attorney team.


Let's be real about this. If the case is being handled in a professional manner, ALL the witnesses have been rehearsed and coached. That's part of the process. It would be crazy to put somebody up there and have no real idea how they will behave or respond to an unexpected question.

That's true. Dunno if everybody else likes to watch the whole thing, sharing the link for whoever's interested.
Bludgeon
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1291
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:27 am

Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby david cohen » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:15 pm

One reason this case hit the national news was the "stand your ground" defense that GZ asserted immediately after the incident which prompted the Sanford police to not arrest him. Of course, GZ changed that defense to a pure self defense.

So far it looks like GZ started a fight, got tussled around enough to bleed but not get a concussion or broken schnoz, and shot the kid. Since Martin wasn't armed, GZ was reckless.

The core story told by Jeantel hasn't changed a bit; however, her ancillary details have, and that's easily attributed to her being thrust into this mess. We'll see what the jury thinks- that's why it's called justice.
david cohen
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1330
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:48 pm

Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Huckleby » Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:51 am

Bludgeon wrote: In my opinion (and what seems apparent to others), judging by her testimony the letter very well may have been written under duress or collusion with the prosecution.


you're barking up the wrong tree. The letter was written about a month after the killing, before the prosecution was in gear. (I may have the date wrong, but it was a letter to Martin's mom that Jeantel childishly thought might end her involvement.) The letter was very short, and means nothing.
Huckleby
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 6438
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:12 pm
Location: parents' basement

Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Huckleby » Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:54 am

david cohen wrote: The core story told by Jeantel hasn't changed a bit; however, her ancillary details have, and that's easily attributed to her being thrust into this mess. We'll see what the jury thinks- that's why it's called justice.


From watching CNN panels, it seems that conservative-leaning people think she is a bad kid and completely untrustworthy. Probably half the jury will agree. I see her more positively, but the prosecution has to convince ALL the jurors.
Huckleby
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 6438
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:12 pm
Location: parents' basement

Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Dangerousman » Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:51 am

snoqueen wrote:Correction: I don't think there was any "neighborhood watch" program at all. I have not seen one shred of information saying this was a group activity, it had any organization, it had any training program, protocol for action when suspicious activity is seen, or volunteer schedule, it had any support from the neighbors in the neighborhood, it had any working relationship with the town or the police, or it had any existence at all outside the mind of George Zimmerman.

If I'm wrong show the information.


Well it seems to have had an existence also in the mind of Don O'Brien, the homeowners association president who testified that he attended the neighborhood watch meeting presented by the Sanford Police Department along with around 25 other people. And it seems to have had an existence in the mind of Wendy Dorival of the Sanford Police Department who testified for about an hour:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YU6Sf1bZik

And here's a picture of the sign located at the gate of Zimmerman's neighborhood.

Image
Dangerousman
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2292
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:28 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby HawkHead » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:19 am

Bludgeon wrote:
HawkHead wrote:There are certainly racial undertones in the trial but I believe the main issue is the ability of your child to walk to the store and get home without being shot by someone who thinks he is protecting the neighborhood.

I wouldn't care what color person shot my son it is never appropriate for someone in a neighborhood watch to shoot anyone. We have had a few break ins in our neighborhood and over and over we get communications that say to report suspicious behavior to the police and not to confront anyone.


I can't really disagree with any of that other than to say, all facts of the matter aside, it's the forced 'moral outrage' that puts this case in the position it's in nationally. My interest in the case is just in observing what at this point has become a bizarre political undertones that make this case noteworthy.


The outrage comes from a kid going to the store and walking thru his neighborhood and getting shot by the neighborhood watch who is supposed to be protecting him.

As to the "forced 'moral outrage'", it's funny you are squarely on one side of the outrage. It hardly seems like you are truly interested in observing.
HawkHead
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 774
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:29 pm

Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby johnfajardohenry » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:21 am

Francis Di Domizio wrote:
Ned Flanders wrote:Zimmerman claims he followed Martin, stopped, headed back to his car and was attacked by Martin.


Well, I'm sure there's no reason he might lie about that.


On the other hand, the prosecution testimony so far seems to corroborate Zimmerman's claims.

Watch, for example, yesterday's testimony from prosecution earwitnesses Jenna Lauer and Selma Mora.

And Jeantel's testimony (yesterday and wed), who was supposedly on the phone with Martin at the time, was just a complete mess.

Watch also, from Tuesday, the testimony of Jane Sudyka and Jeanee Manaloo. Also earwitnesses.

John Henry
johnfajardohenry
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1334
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:22 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Headlines

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

moviesmusiceats
Select a Movie
Select a Theater


commentsViewedForum
  ISTHMUS FLICKR

Promotions Contact us Privacy Policy Jobs Newsletters RSS
Collapse Photo Bar