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The gun thread

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Re: The gun thread

Postby fisticuffs » Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:26 am

Oh, and I'm not the one is afraid of ordinary law-abiding people, so if you want to talk paranoia bring it on.


I feel safe mowing my lawn without packing heat.
Your move.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby wack wack » Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:27 am

BSH wrote:
wack wack wrote:Hmmm, what's that Latin phrase I'm thinking of... "Reductio ad absurdum," is that it? Yeah, that's it. Reductio ad absurdum.


Can you explain what the reductio ad absurdum is? Does the bill proposed not contain provisions with the effects described? I haven't read the bill myself, but I understood that it does indeed define "transfer" quite broadly, with the ONLY limitation on that broad holding to allow ownership transfers to immediate family members. Again, I haven't read it myself, but if you call BS, can you support your contradiction?


Sure, every point of Dangerousman's that Wagstaff highlighted shortly after my comment was reductio ad absurdum. Can't hand your rifle to your hunting buddy in order to relieve yourself? Can't share your handgun with a friend at the range? Can't leave the gun in your house with your girlfriend when you leave town? All absurd, fear-mongering statements.

I will apologize and acknowledge my error as soon as ONE hunter, buddy or girlfriend is arrested for the indicated illegal transfer.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby kurt_w » Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:09 pm

Louisiana Judge Rules That Violent Felons Have Gun Rights Too

A New Orleans judge ruled last Thursday that a law forbidding felons from owning firearms infringes their rights to keep and bear arms as guaranteed by the state's newly amended constitution.

Although Louisiana already had extremely permissive gun laws (and second highest gun-murder rate in the country), last November voters overwhelmingly passed an initiative backed by the National Rifle Association that made gun ownership a fundamental right with the same levels of protection as the freedoms of religion and speech.

[...] In his decision, Judge Darryl Derbigny wrote that statute RS 14:95.1, which bars firearm ownership for people convicted of violent crimes, such as murder, assault, rape and battery, and certain misdemeanors, is "unconstitutional in its entirety."


The gun-rights movement is adopting a maximalist approach to this. The position appears to be that guns should be available to anyone, anytime, anywhere, with no exceptions.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby pjbogart » Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:37 pm

Jim Carrey plays Charles Heston

Desperately needs to be edited down, but I applaud Jim Carrey for sticking his neck out on the issue.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:54 pm

Besides the video, here are some of Carrey's tweets:
"Hunters hang animals up on their walls.I kill mosquitos bt their little heads r hard to mount!" he wrote.

"'Cold Dead Hand' is abt u heartless motherf--kers unwilling 2 bend 4 the safety of our kids.Sorry if you're offended by the word safety!" the actor continued.

"I'd like to respond to all the conservative bundits out there personally but I'm far too busy NOT stumping for the gun companies!" he also wrote.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Stebben84 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:34 pm

Dangerousman wrote:Why don't you take a look again? I made comments about proposed federal legislation


Alright, my bad. You were responding to Henry's comment so I misread what you were referring to. So, for what it's worth:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default ... e_full.pdf

Congress should pass legislation that goes beyond just closing the “gun show loophole” to require background checks for all firearm sales, with limited, common-sense exceptions for cases like certain transfers between family members and temporary transfers for hunting and sporting purposes.


And Shumer's bill did just that.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-113s ... s374rs.pdf

Paragraph (1) shall not apply to

at a shooting range located in or on
7 premises owned or occupied by a duly incor-
8 porated organization organized for conservation
9 purposes or to foster proficiency in firearms and
10 the firearm is, at all times, kept within the
11 premises of the shooting range;
12 ‘‘(ii) at a target firearm shooting competi-
13 tion under the auspices of or approved by a
14 State agency or nonprofit organization and the
15 firearm is, at all times, kept within the premises
16 of the shooting competition; and
17 ‘‘(iii) while hunting or trapping, if—
18 ‘‘(I) the activity is legal in all places
19 where the unlicensed transferee possesses the
20 firearm;


So when you said this:

Want to let your friend shoot your gun while duck hunting? You have to go through a background check or become felons. Let your buddy try out your gun at a shooting range? Felons!


It was bullshit.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby rabble » Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:18 pm

So to prove how easy it is to buy an assault weapon, Gabby Giffords' husband buys one from a retailer.

But wait! The retailer finds out that he intends to hand it over to the police and announce how easy it was to purchase. So the retailer cancels the sale and sends him a full refund.

See? It's NOT that easy to buy an assault weapon. Mark Kelly just tried and couldn't do it. Therefore we need more guns.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby jonnygothispen » Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:17 pm

That-a-boy, Rabble!!! but we gotta do something about the vets next...

https://donate.votevets.org/page/contri ... dkos130326
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Re: The gun thread

Postby snoqueen » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:19 pm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ ... ml?hpid=z2

...societal and cultural programming makes it easy for conservative, white-male-led groups to convince the nation that an organization led by white men, such as the NRA or the tea party movement, can represent the interests of the entire nation when, in fact, they predominately represent only their own experiences and perspectives.


This article examines mass shootings from a race perspective, focusing on white males (as shown in the quote I selected). In light of the state by state statistics I linked a couple days ago that showed disproportionate black gun homicides and white gun suicides, race (along with sex) is an appropriate place to start a discussion of whose interests should have precedence as we deal with gun crimes on a societal level.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Dangerousman » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:45 pm

fisticuffs wrote:
Oh, and I'm not the one is afraid of ordinary law-abiding people, so if you want to talk paranoia bring it on.


I feel safe mowing my lawn without packing heat.
Your move.


How nice that you feel safe. It is a psychological phenomenon that has no necessary connection with actually being safe.

There are books that I could recommend if you need help to understand the difference.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Dangerousman » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:48 pm

Stebben84 wrote:So when you said this:

Want to let your friend shoot your gun while duck hunting? You have to go through a background check or become felons. Let your buddy try out your gun at a shooting range? Felons!


It was bullshit.


Not really, because when you read the actual text of the bill it is highly restrictive as to the time and place any such "transfers" can occur. No comment on the infringement of rights of 18-20 year olds? Or unmarried (e.g. domestic or gay) partners?
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Re: The gun thread

Postby fisticuffs » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:06 pm

And how many people are mugged and murdered while mowing the lawn each year in America? In Wisconsin? In Madison, Wisconsin?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia
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Re: The gun thread

Postby snoqueen » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:57 pm

How nice that you feel safe. It is a psychological phenomenon that has no necessary connection with actually being safe.


...a distinction that didn't help Kaufman County Texas DA Mike McLelland and his wife over the weekend. McLelland had described himself as an army guy who was perpetually watchful for his own safety, and was known to arm himself even when walking his dog following the murder of his own Assistant DA Mark Hasse just two months ago.

Didn't help a whole lot, sadly.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby DCB » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:25 pm

fisticuffs wrote:And how many people are mugged and murdered while mowing the lawn each year in America? In Wisconsin? In Madison, Wisconsin?

You're being lulled into a false sense of security by statistics.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby HawkHead » Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:58 am

Dangerousman wrote:
fisticuffs wrote:
Oh, and I'm not the one is afraid of ordinary law-abiding people, so if you want to talk paranoia bring it on.


I feel safe mowing my lawn without packing heat.
Your move.


How nice that you feel safe. It is a psychological phenomenon that has no necessary connection with actually being safe.

There are books that I could recommend if you need help to understand the difference.


I usually stay out of this thread but here goes.

Dman, thanks for telling me. I am the luckiest person alive!

I use to run a lawn mowing and snow shoveling business when I was a kid. I had about 4-10 lawns to mow every summer. I have been mowing with quick crazy math over 1,000 hours. With how dangerous and UNSAFE it is to mow lawns I am surprised that I am still alive since I didn't wear a gun. I am going to the store this week to buy a gun because I don't want to be UNSAFE this summer while mowing the grass. I mean if I am lucky to be alive after 1,000 hours what are the chances I'll make it another 20-25 hours this year. :oops:
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