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The gun thread

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Re: The gun thread

Postby fennel » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:27 pm

Actually, we know that restricting guns would help a great deal. We just don't have the spine to implement what we know, for bizarre ideological reasons..
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Re: The gun thread

Postby snoqueen » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:32 pm

I think the solution comes from being personally good to those around us, reaching out to those in need, and ending the divisiveness sought by ideological extremes. I think the solution also comes from a cultural shift of being a self-centered society focused on greed, to one focused on compassion.


Well put.

Moving from extreme individualism to a more community-minded standard might help too, particularly in identifying and intervening earlier when someone appears to be going around the bend. Maybe we take mind-your-own-business too far.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Detritus » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:33 pm

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Re: The gun thread

Postby ouroborus4 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:36 pm

fennel wrote:Actually, we know that restricting guns would help a great deal. We just don't have the spine to implement what we know, for bizarre ideological reasons..


Restricting guns may or may not reduce the violence in this country. I think there is a strong argument that it would reduce deaths, but the underlying problems of what causes people to act in this way would continue to go unaddressed and violence would continue. Instead of scapegoating guns, which despite how they have been used have a legitimate role in our society, I think we should address how our society fails the individuals who commit these acts. "What is it that is so bad about their lives that they feel the need to lash out in this way, and what can we do about it" is a much more prodcutive and beneficial problem to tackle than "Ban guns!"
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Ned Flanders » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:36 pm

Galoot wrote:I can certainly agree to that, especially as a recent U.S. gun owner.

But Ned, what specific measures would you propose to prevent such an occurrence as the CT massacre? Of course, it isn't up to you, but at least we on the left have a proposal for action.


Keeping better track of the mentally ill, trained/armed staff and/or security at schools.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:44 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:Keeping better track of the mentally ill...

Is mental illness now a crime? I thought your hero Reagan freed them years ago.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby fennel » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:02 pm

I don't think anyone is suggesting that restricting guns would remedy society's ills. It would be an intervention to significantly improve a desperate situation. A defibrillator won't remedy poor diet, but if someone is experiencing cardiac arrest, it's time to slap the paddles one – now.

To remark that restricting guns won't correct the root of the problem or problems is a lazy and mealy-mouthed response to a very serious problem.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Stebben84 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:10 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:trained/armed staff and/or security at schools.


So the answer isn't regulation, it's just putting an armed officer at every school. But hey, why stop there. We should put an armed officer or guard at every possible fucking location we can. Every classroom, every store, every building, every restaurant, every office, every-fucking-where.

The third word of the second amendment is "regulated." Thanks to certain groups any regulations are being stripped down to nothing. Why do they hate the constitution so much. Allow guns, but REGULATE THE FUCK OUT OF THEM. As far as the black market goes, take all the dumb ass money we spend on the drug war and go after illegal guns. We now regulate fertilizer better than we regulate guns. There is something seriously wrong with that.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby fennel » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:26 pm

Stebben84 wrote:
Ned Flanders wrote:trained/armed staff and/or security at schools.
So the answer isn't regulation, it's just putting an armed officer at every school. But hey, why stop there. We should put an armed officer or guard at every possible fucking location we can. Every classroom, every store, every building, every restaurant, every office, every-fucking-where.
But wait! It's not just any armed staff, it's Blackwater mercenaries! God bless the free market, no? (The fact that few kids get popped by twitchy guards? Eh, the cost of doing business.)
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Re: The gun thread

Postby fennel » Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:19 pm

There's a nice concise op-ed in the NYT: Why We Let the School Shootings Continue.

Among other things, he addresses the flaccid, pro forma talking points of the unreflective:
I came to realize that, in essence, this is the way we in America want things to be. We want our freedom, and we want our firearms, and if we have to endure the occasional school shooting, so be it. A terrible shame, but hey — didn’t some guy in China just do the same thing with a knife?
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Stebben84 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:10 pm

This struck me from that piece:

Children will continue to pay for a freedom their elders enjoy.


It couldn't have been said any better. What a sick day. I chose to take today off of work and just loaf around watching shitty daytime TV. Little did I know I would be thrust into the worst story I think I have ever seen. I can't even grasp to begin what just happened. For the most part I have been somewhat ambivalent to the gun issue. I tried to see both sides of the argument and what people were trying to say. Today I saw a gun kill 20 little kids. Yes a sick person killed them, but he had the help of a gun and today my opinion has lost its ambivalence. Right now I can't quite figure out what we need to do, but something needs to be done. This is both with our mental institutional system and our gun system. If people don't think BOTH need to be fixed, then you've got a problem.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Meade » Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:32 pm

Stebben84 wrote:What a sick day. I chose to take today off of work and just loaf around watching shitty daytime TV...Today I saw a gun kill 20 little kids.

People like you are more than half the problem. You and your TV provide the nihilistic oxygen mass murderers can't seem to suck enough of.

Ban yourself.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Stebben84 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:38 pm

Do you even realize what a fucking asshole you are? Ha, silly question.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Meade » Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:19 pm

Truth is, Stebben, rubberneckers like you are way more than half the problem.

You're like 99.9% of the problem.

Turn off your TV. Stop emoting over the internet. Solve the problem.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Stebben84 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:27 pm

Meade, do us a favor and walk away. Leave this forum and walk away. You accomplish nothing and make a fool of yourself. I know I keep responding but now your time is done. I'm sorry to all for adding to the troll, but the time is done. Leave.
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