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Texas Woman Gets 99 Years for Child Abuse

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Re: Texas Woman Gets 99 Years for Child Abuse

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:23 am

Mean Scenester wrote:As a parent, I can't possibly bring myself to give a fuck what becomes of this woman.


TBH, I suspect a good deal of my feelings about this woman's punishment are for a similar reason. Not being able to understand or rationalize her reaction to a fairly common event, it's easier to paint the woman as a monster.

Even knowing that, I'm not bothered by my reaction.
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Re: Texas Woman Gets 99 Years for Child Abuse

Postby pjbogart » Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:38 pm

But doesn't that lead you to the conclusion that your reaction is more out of vengeance than anything else? If the woman has ten years to sit and think about her crime, how much more thinking do you think she'll do in the following ten years? What about the ten years after that?

I'm not sympathizing with the woman so much as asking whether her lengthy sentence does anyone any good? It seems like a lot of money to spend just to stick it to her for being such a wicked wretch.
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Re: Texas Woman Gets 99 Years for Child Abuse

Postby snoqueen » Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:22 pm

I don't put much weight on the concepts of revenge, vengeance, and punishment, either as social policy or as a means to personal satisfaction. So I don't have the same reasons as Francis and Meanie, but I came to the same conclusions they did: she's got to do the time. As I said, my reason is social safety.

It's interesting how conclusions can converge even though all the reasoning diverges.

Even though we agree, though, do you guys seriously think vengeance should play a part in sentencing?

I also thought invading Iraq as vengeance for 9-11 was extremely bad policy. Even aside from the fact there were no weapons of mass destruction, the notion vengeance accomplishes anything in international relations is suspect and questionable. Should vengeance play a part in public policy at all? What does it accomplish? If the purpose is personal satisfaction, does vengeance carried out through a corporate or governmental (that is, non-personal) entity bring satisfaction, even at a distance?
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Re: Texas Woman Gets 99 Years for Child Abuse

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:38 pm

pjbogart wrote:But doesn't that lead you to the conclusion that your reaction is more out of vengeance than anything else? If the woman has ten years to sit and think about her crime, how much more thinking do you think she'll do in the following ten years? What about the ten years after that?


Vengeance is definitely a possibility. If it were my child she had hurt, I would 100% definitely want to have revenge on this woman. I also would 100% not want her to serve a day of jail time. That's irrational, but would definitely outweigh any rational thoughts on the mater.

From a rational stand point (again with a parent's view) I can see that this woman had no compulsion against hurting her own child. Protecting children is one of the strongest ingrained instincts in our society. The fact that it didn't work to protect her own child gives me little hope that she would have any ability to control her behavior with other children.

So I can see where you would take my statement to be one of wanting revenge, but as a parent what I am saying is I wouldn't want any other child to be at risk from this monster. I care more that she doesn't have a chance to hurt any other child than I care what happens to her.
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Re: Texas Woman Gets 99 Years for Child Abuse

Postby pjbogart » Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:02 pm

Hey, what about this upstanding citizen? Jesse Paul Speer lured an 11 year-old girl to his car, saying that he was looking for his lost puppy, abducted her at gunpoint, drove her to a church where he tied her up, then took her out into the wilderness, assaulted her and left her to die in the cold.

Wyoming Kidnap Suspect Arrested; Samaritans Describe Rescue of Girl, 11

Anyone want to bet he gets less than 99 years? This guy is a fucking monster. He may indeed die in a jail cell, but I bet he gets a parole hearing before 2042.

I understand that heinous crimes, particularly when they're committed against children, have a way of coloring our judgement. Speaking objectively about crime, you might oppose the death penalty, or push for more funds for rehabilitation. But when faced with the details of a crime you often lose that objectivity. Suddenly an otherwise compassionate and reasonable person is filled with anger and hatred. No punishment could be too severe for this crime, right?

But our criminal justice system was put in place to protect people from lynch mobs. Emotion often gets the better of us and we need rules and procedures to ensure that we don't become criminals ourselves in our rage and frustration. Punishment should be proportionate. It should serve to both rehabilitate criminals and protect society from them. Once it becomes a tool of vengeance, it ceases to be justice. It's just a modernized version of a lynch mob.

I'm a strong opponent of the death penalty, but people like Jesse Paul Speers have a way of shaking my faith. But a 99 year sentence is essentially a death penalty too, isn't it? Would you consider these two crimes to be equivalent? I think the people of Montana, Wyoming and America are better off if Mr. Speers never sees the light of day again. Do you feel the same about a woman with serious anger management issues who beat up her own child?
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Re: Texas Woman Gets 99 Years for Child Abuse

Postby pjbogart » Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:19 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:Protecting children is one of the strongest ingrained instincts in our society.


I don't even think it's societal. I'm not sure if anyone's ever done the experiment (or whether it would be ethical), but I think some grad student in psychology or sociology might have some fun with this one: If I'm walking down State Street and some random pedestrian steps over the curb and into the street, I hardly notice. One day I was walking along and a child stepped over the curb and my eye was instantly drawn to the child. As it was, the child was actually holding his mother's hand. But my reaction was instinctual. I have no children of my own and have spent only limited time caring for young children (both of my sisters have children who I've taken on trips, bike rides, etc). Despite this fact, I apparently ignore adults in danger yet my heart skips a beat if I see a child in danger. I wonder if this also affects my perception of someone kicking a dog versus kicking a puppy. Perhaps we protect that which needs protection and ignore that which doesn't. And furthermore, perhaps our attention is drawn to that which needs protection, whether we realize it or not.

But doesn't that go to the vengeance argument as well? We become more enraged by crimes against children and that rage clouds our judgement? Perhaps instinctively?
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Re: Texas Woman Gets 99 Years for Child Abuse

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:28 pm

pjbogart wrote:our criminal justice system was put in place to protect people from lynch mobs. Emotion often gets the better of us and we need rules and procedures to ensure that we don't become criminals ourselves in our rage and frustration. Punishment should be proportionate. It should serve to both rehabilitate criminals and protect society from them.


Our criminal justice system also recognizes that there are people beyond rehabilitation.

pjbogart wrote: I think the people of Montana, Wyoming and America are better off if Mr. Speers never sees the light of day again. Do you feel the same about a woman with serious anger management issues who beat up her own child?


Yes. Their crimes were very different, but I see the risk of ever letting either free to be higher than any possible benefit to society.
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Re: Texas Woman Gets 99 Years for Child Abuse

Postby Mean Scenester » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:52 pm

pjbogart wrote:But doesn't that lead you to the conclusion that your reaction is more out of vengeance than anything else?

Why does my indifference have to be born of vengeance? Like Sno, I just want this woman dealt with in a way that she can't repeat this ugliness.

If the woman has ten years to sit and think about her crime, how much more thinking do you think she'll do in the following ten years? What about the ten years after that?

I used to play poker with a psychologist who worked with violent sex offenders. I asked him if he thought there was any possibility that someone so broken could be rehabilitated. "No fucking way," was the response. I submit that, similar to a pedophile, this woman is beyond repair.

Fuck man, there are non-violent drug offenders who are subject to sentences this harsh. I'll reserve my criticism of the penal system for folks in those situations. This bitch doesn't even rate.
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Re: Texas Woman Gets 99 Years for Child Abuse

Postby pjbogart » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:57 pm

Texas justice strikes again. A daycare provider left a pan of oil on a burner while she went to Target and a blaze broke out that killed four of the seven children in her care. Horrific story and inexcusable negligence, to be sure. Her sentence for the first of the four felony murders was 80 years in prison, with three more trials left.

So how about it? Texas is going to spend a few million taxpayer dollars to lock up this crazed lunatic for the rest of her life. I mean, really, if you ran into her at Wal-Mart, who knows what she'd do to you!

Woman gets 80 years for deadly Texas day care fire
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Re: Texas Woman Gets 99 Years for Child Abuse

Postby rabble » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:06 pm

I'll get back to you after we find out how the driver of that veteran's day float makes out.
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Re: Texas Woman Gets 99 Years for Child Abuse

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:38 pm

pjbogart wrote:Texas justice strikes again. A daycare provider left a pan of oil on a burner while she went to Target and a blaze broke out that killed four of the seven children in her care. Horrific story and inexcusable negligence, to be sure. Her sentence for the first of the four felony murders was 80 years in prison, with three more trials left.

So how about it? Texas is going to spend a few million taxpayer dollars to lock up this crazed lunatic for the rest of her life. I mean, really, if you ran into her at Wal-Mart, who knows what she'd do to you!

Woman gets 80 years for deadly Texas day care fire



Interesting, I would think this falls under manslaughter not murder, but apparently Texas law dictates any death caused as a result of another felony is considered felony murder. Unlike the other case where the woman clearly intended harm, this woman was criminally negligent, but not intending to cause harm.

I'm not exactly sympathetic to her plight (not even a little bit), but I agree the punishment seems excessive for her crime, unless they believe that her repeated negligent behavior was due to her being a sociopath. Which doesn't seem to be what the prosecutors argued. 80 years+ is a bit much for someone who is at the root, criminally stupid.

Granted she also didn't help herself out by running away to Nigeria.
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Re: Texas Woman Gets 99 Years for Child Abuse

Postby evansvillehousewife » Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:33 am

Meanwhile, in Rock county..

Smash a 15 month old baby's head in a bathtub, get a year in jail.


http://gazettextra.com/news/2008/sep/04 ... tub-death/

Or, beat your three year old girl to the point where her eyes point in different directions, encourage your boysfriend to smack her some more to see if it puts her right... it all ends with the the three year old girl getting her skull resected to relieve deadly pressure and having permanent disability... get two years probation.

http://walworthcountytoday.com/news/200 ... buse-case/


So 99 years? Yeah. Don't give a fuck about her. Let her rot. If you are into killing toddlers, though, Rock co is a prime place to move to. You'll get less time then if you drive drunk.
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Re: Texas Woman Gets 99 Years for Child Abuse

Postby Stebben84 » Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:51 am

evansvillehousewife wrote:Smash a 15 month old baby's head in a bathtub, get a year in jail.


While I agree that these are weak sentences, where does it state that the baby's head was "smashed" by the Janesville man.
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Re: Texas Woman Gets 99 Years for Child Abuse

Postby Mean Scenester » Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:05 pm

Stebben84 wrote:While I agree that these are weak sentences, where does it state that the baby's head was "smashed" by the Janesville man.

I think the words "obvious brain trauma" are what you're looking for (paragraph 4).
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Re: Texas Woman Gets 99 Years for Child Abuse

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:11 am

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