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Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

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Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

Postby jjoyce » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:15 am

http://www.nbc15.com/home/headlines/Thi ... 04501.html

Says here they left with "about 30" guns, both long and hand varieties. Also: ammo. Lots. Why have 30 guns if not for protection against a home invasion by four guys in ski masks?
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Re: Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

Postby bcs89 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:31 am

jjoyce wrote:http://www.nbc15.com/home/headlines/Thieves-Steal-30-Guns-Truck-From-Rock-County-Home-186604501.html

Says here they left with "about 30" guns, both long and hand varieties. Also: ammo. Lots. Why have 30 guns if not for protection against a home invasion by four guys in ski masks?

Right Jason - lets blame the victim (or at the very least make fun of them). Never mind the fact that they "held both homeowners hostage at gunpoint and demanded access to a safe", Hell, they owned GUNS, got what they deserved , right?
I think our gun laws need to change, but ridiculing people who have had a gun to their head while being forced to open the SAFE they kept their guns in is over the top.
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Re: Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

Postby jjoyce » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:10 am

Far from ridiculing them, I'm concerned about them. I'm pleased that the guy got out of this thing with a few scratches and a bloody nose and that none of his neighbors or innocent bystanders elsewhere ended up being victimized by the fleeing criminals and the stolen guns.

Many gun fans have pointed out that they buy guns because they refuse to be victims. They joke about putting signs on their houses that say "Guns inside. We don't call 911." We're told that criminals pick environments that are likely to be free of guns and legislation like concealed carry of guns means that we will all be safer because criminals might now suspect that any average joe on the street is strapped. But buying a gun doesn't guarantee safety from crime at all. It might not even reduce the chances of being targeted by criminals.

What if these particular criminals knew that this home had about 30 guns and that's the specific reason they targeted it? Wouldn't that work against the theory that a good guy with a gun is the best way to stop a bad guy with a gun?
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Re: Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

Postby rabble » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:24 am

I gotta go with Jason here. I think the "don't blame the victim" defense is not the smartest tactic in this case.
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Re: Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

Postby jman111 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:27 am

Doesn't this discussion belong in THE gun thread?
jjoyce wrote:Fair warning: On Monday morning, all gun talk will be moved to this thread and the others will be locked. I really don't think there's any need for multiple gun threads at the same time.

This forum is not about guns. In the grand scheme of issues affecting the lives of people living around Madison, guns is a very small one. Based on looking at this board, it's a very big issue, but only to a small group of people who have a lot of time to post.
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Re: Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

Postby bcs89 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:58 am

jjoyce wrote:Far from ridiculing them, I'm concerned about them. I'm pleased that the guy got out of this thing with a few scratches and a bloody nose and that none of his neighbors or innocent bystanders elsewhere ended up being victimized by the fleeing criminals and the stolen guns.

Many gun fans have pointed out that they buy guns because they refuse to be victims. They joke about putting signs on their houses that say "Guns inside. We don't call 911." We're told that criminals pick environments that are likely to be free of guns and legislation like concealed carry of guns means that we will all be safer because criminals might now suspect that any average joe on the street is strapped. But buying a gun doesn't guarantee safety from crime at all. It might not even reduce the chances of being targeted by criminals.

What if these particular criminals knew that this home had about 30 guns and that's the specific reason they targeted it? Wouldn't that work against the theory that a good guy with a gun is the best way to stop a bad guy with a gun?


Yes Jason, your original post was absolutely oozing with concern and compassion for the home owners.. How I missed that overwhelming sense of sympathy for all involved is beyond me.

While its true there are many gun enthusiasts as you describe – their attitudes are a big part of why I think gun laws need to be changed, but simply owning guns does not mean you are a part of that very vocal group. Did these people have a “Guns inside. We don't call 911” sign in their window? I have no idea, but would not automatically make that assumption, or compare them to those who do.

At this point what I know about the situation is that 2 people were held captive and robbed at gunpoint by masked invaders – knowing just what is known at this time, it would seem very crude to use their trauma to simply reinforce your own feelings about guns. It also would seem you have issue with the number of guns they had, it is quite possible that they had a very good reason for so many guns on site - perhaps they were used as “base” for their hunting group, it is not uncommon for a group who hunt together to pool their resources and purchase one gun safe (they are not cheap) where all guns are kept. You did notice they were in a safe, right? Seems like a very safety minded gun owner to me – obviously not the drooling, mouth breather that has a gun under every cushion and is constantly dreaming of a shoot out you seem to imagine when gun owner comes to mind.

So far as your last paragraph, what if they did know he had the guns? So what? (as long as they were legal) you’re just blaming the victim for his possessions. And finally, you say

“Wouldn't that work against the theory that a good guy with a gun is the best way to stop a bad guy with a gun?”

Was this the homeowners theory? If not, what relevance does it have?


Gun laws need to be changed, in my opinion, but snide attitudes like yours regarding gun owners, especially those who have undergone what these people have, are not called for.
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Re: Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

Postby rabble » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:10 am

I got another theory. A guy collects gun after gun, stockpiles ammo, brags about it every day, and puts a "protected by Smith and Wesson" sign on his door.

Then gets robbed by idiots and never gets a shot off.

What a victim.
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Re: Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

Postby bcs89 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:15 am

rabble wrote:I gotta go with Jason here. I think the "don't blame the victim" defense is not the smartest tactic in this case.


I'm sorry rabble, not trying to pick a fight with you, but - what did the homeowners do so wrong that getting their home broken into by masked armed men who then proceed to hold a gun to their head while demanding they open their safe? Is it the simple fact they had guns? I honestly do not understand this "They got what they deserved" type of attitude.
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Re: Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

Postby bcs89 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:20 am

rabble wrote:I got another theory. A guy collects gun after gun, stockpiles ammo, brags about it every day, and puts a "protected by Smith and Wesson" sign on his door.

Then gets robbed by idiots and never gets a shot off.

What a victim.



Fine - I got a theory

Guy thinks "I'm smarter than all others so I feel perfectly fine passing judgment with out an ounce of fact - Hell, if the dipshits lived by my world view (which is THE only correct one) I would not have to judge them in the first place."

Nice world you got there rabble.
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Re: Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

Postby Bland » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:35 am

bcs89 wrote:You did notice they were in a safe, right?
Now who's making assumptions? A safe was opened during the robbery, but there's no indication in the link that it held guns. Maybe the safe held only money and the guns were hanging on the wall. I don't know. Neither do you.

bcs89 wrote:Seems like a very safety minded gun owner to me
Really? Because the link does say "the thieves came through an unlocked door."
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Re: Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

Postby wack wack » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:44 am

bcs89 wrote:it is quite possible that they had a very good reason for so many guns on site - perhaps they were used as “base” for their hunting group, it is not uncommon for a group who hunt together to pool their resources and purchase one gun safe (they are not cheap) where all guns are kept...

So far as your last paragraph, what if they did know he had the guns? So what?


Loose lips sink ships.

What if they knew he had the guns? A fairly unusual coed robbery crew of tender years and little experience just randomly stumbled into a goldmine with 30 guns in it? And you ask what if?
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Re: Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

Postby Beaver » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:53 am

Jason makes a great point. A cache of weapons didn't help the homeowners. A great example of why we need less guns and more gun control.

I see nothing wrong with multiple threads on a topic, especially when one becomes so full it's hard to follow. I don't understand why Jason only wanted one thread.
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Re: Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

Postby rabble » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:00 am

bcs89 wrote:Nice world you got there rabble.

Yeah. It's a world where kids get killed in grade school and people yell "We've got to arm the teachers!"

I'm not happy here either. Wish I had your sunny disposition.
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Re: Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

Postby doppel » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:10 am

It's quite possible, actually likely, that the perps knew of the guns inside.The mere threat of confiscation has raised the value of them on the black market. Basic economics: scarcity raises value. It will increase with every more restrictive law passed. The law of unintended consequences biting us in the ass again. Expect to see more invasions.
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Re: Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

Postby bcs89 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:12 am

Bland wrote:
bcs89 wrote:You did notice they were in a safe, right?
Now who's making assumptions? A safe was opened during the robbery, but there's no indication in the link that it held guns. Maybe the safe held only money and the guns were hanging on the wall. I don't know. Neither do you.

bcs89 wrote:Seems like a very safety minded gun owner to me
Really? Because the link does say "the thieves came through an unlocked door."


Yes Bland - you are absolutely right, I took the statement

"..held both homeowners hostage at gunpoint and demanded access to a safe. The suspects took several long guns, a few handguns and some ammunition, along with an undetermined amount of cash"

to mean that the guns were in the safe. I was wrong to do so, so my next quote of yours is obviously an assumption also.

My mistake, I apologize for jumping to conclusions.
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