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Massive Explosions at Boston Marathon

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Re: Massive Explosions at Boston Marathon

Postby Meade » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:30 am

Madcity Expat wrote:But the cheap political score-keeping got under my skin this time. I guess I hoped that this was a serious enough event that we might set that aside for a couple of days. Naive of me, apparently.

Looks like you scored about 16 cheap political points in this thread alone, Mad Ex. Congratulations.
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Re: Massive Explosions at Boston Marathon

Postby DCB » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:36 am

alpuz wrote:So it was a 'fantasy', still 'within the range of possibilities'? That's your call?


It is in the range of possibility Leroy could have identified both suspects by watching porn and snorting meth all day. That is why meth and porn should be legal.
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Re: Massive Explosions at Boston Marathon

Postby Madcity Expat » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:54 am

Meade wrote:3. Yes, yes, okay.
4. I do.

Okay, I guess I should thank you for being honest.

Original question and Meade's response:
Are you seriously suggesting that any Bostonian, whatever their politics, would not be insulted by Bell's remark? Yes
Are you really that stupid? Yes
How about you volunteer to go to Boston and stand on a corner with Bell's tweet on a sign...? Okay
Confirm that you think it is appropriate...to insult some Bostonians, based on their political and/or ideological identification? I do

I look forward to the news reports from when you go to Boston with that sign. Make sure and let us know when you're headed East.

The majority of my immediate circle of friends and family members are varying degrees of conservative. I took the liberty of sharing Bell's tweet and your responses with several of them: Walker supporting, union trashing, Obama detesting, gun owning - you know...ostensibly your type of people.

All of them, without ambiguity or exception found Bell's comment repellent and your unapologetic support of it reprehensible.

Meade, these are people who, on a different day, would be your political allies. My conversations with them have persuaded me of the difference - they recognize the common humanity they share with Bostonians, even the liberal ones. They all said something to the effect that this week, Boston, was not the time/place for that kind of pettiness.

I understand that I will not persuade you, Meade. And I understand that the internet magnifies these sorts of divisive communications. My conservative friends and family are nice people who I know and care for, and where politics is only marginally relevant to our relationship - of course we had a civil conversation. And you are just some anonymous internet schmoe - of course it's easier to just take shots and define our exchange in the sharpest political terms possible.

I sincerely hope that you are just an amoral troll - a contrarian provocateur merely seeking to elicit an emotional reaction for your personal entertainment value. Consider yourself entertained. I've been thinking all night that no one with a moral compass could actually mean what you said.

But I fear that you do. I hope it's not entirely futile to ask you to think deeply about that. Please consider having more compassion for the people of Boston - all of them. If that is beyond you, then you have my pity.
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Re: Massive Explosions at Boston Marathon

Postby Madcity Expat » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:57 am

Meade wrote:
Madcity Expat wrote:But the cheap political score-keeping got under my skin this time. I guess I hoped that this was a serious enough event that we might set that aside for a couple of days. Naive of me, apparently.

Looks like you scored about 16 cheap political points in this thread alone, Mad Ex. Congratulations.


How tedious. From an earlier post:
Madcity Expat wrote:2) Meade, please invest some effort thinking up a better retort than "I know you are, but what am I?" All of your replies are variations that theme. Psychological projection is extremely feeble and lazy argumentation. Do a little research and come up with something better.
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Re: Massive Explosions at Boston Marathon

Postby DCB » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:59 am

pjbogart wrote:you aren't seeing much in the line of suggestions from our resident fringe lunatics.
... Politics is more like a sporting event than real life for them. They just scored a touchdown and followed it up with a goal line stand.

I'm pretty sure this applies to each and every troll post. Zero content, 100% auto-fluffing and point-scoring.

Its like talking to a version of Eliza programmed by the John Birch society. The point it to make you respond, not have an actual human convesation.
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Re: Massive Explosions at Boston Marathon

Postby Stella_Guru » Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:06 am

snoqueen wrote:To me one of the main messages of the Boston story is what happens when a civilian messes with the government. They're facing helicopters, all different tactical vehicles and weapons, hundreds of organized and well-trained troops with advanced communications and investigation technology including robots, and they get pretty much smothered.

Interesting that despite the police state maneuvers, the suspect wasn't caught until the lock-down was lifted and some guy walked out of his house to discover blood by his boat and a bleeding person inside.
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Re: Massive Explosions at Boston Marathon

Postby snoqueen » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:09 pm

I thought that was interesting too. It takes public support to make police work effective.

I am sure the phrase "police state maneuvers" will be adopted by the resident trolls forthwith, but still -- if there were any members of the public at all who helped this kid hide, we haven't been told yet. It's a police state if the public is being repressed, and of course that's a shades-of-gray thing not either/or. In this particular case, support was as close to unanimous as you can get, because the bombing really, really pissed off nearly everybody.

If you are uncomfortable with a show of police force -- and there's some point where anybody would be made uncomfortable, if a wide enough range of circumstances was surveyed -- is every-man-for-himself a better plan, so that the self-selected person who amasses the largest collection of arms and ammunition wins without having to face input and review from the general public or the legal system either before or after an event?

This is a genuinely debatable question in any thoughtful context (which may not include the forum -- we'll see).
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Re: Massive Explosions at Boston Marathon

Postby Meade » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:22 pm

Stella_Guru wrote:Interesting that despite the police state maneuvers, the suspect wasn't caught until the lock-down was lifted and some guy walked out of his house to discover blood by his boat and a bleeding person inside.

This is an excellent point. "Shelter in place" procedures should be reserved for hazardous material accidents and releases. Active shooter or terrorist-on-the-loose events should trigger citizen involvement.
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Re: Massive Explosions at Boston Marathon

Postby Meade » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:44 pm

snoqueen wrote:and of course that's a shades-of-gray thing not either/or.

And then snoqueen proceeds to build an either/or thing:
snoqueen wrote:is every-man-for-himself a better plan, so that the self-selected person who amasses the largest collection of arms and ammunition wins without having to face input and review from the general public or the legal system either before or after an event?
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Re: Massive Explosions at Boston Marathon

Postby Stella_Guru » Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:21 pm

snoqueen wrote: It takes public support to make police work effective........ is every-man-for-himself a better plan, so that the self-selected person who amasses the largest collection of arms and ammunition wins without having to face input and review from the general public or the legal system either before or after an event?

The citizen's right to bear cameras shall not be infringed.....
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Re: Massive Explosions at Boston Marathon

Postby Henry Vilas » Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:21 pm

I see some conservative politicians and pundits are calling for the surviving bomber to be labeled an enemy combatant and be tried by a military tribunal. I guess they think the only part of the Bill of Rights that matters is the Second Amendment. Timothy McVeigh was also a U.S. citizen and committed his terroristic attack (directly against the U.S. government) on U.S. soil, but was tried, convicted and executed according to civilian law, as the Constitution demands.
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Re: Massive Explosions at Boston Marathon

Postby Meade » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:12 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Timothy McVeigh was also a U.S. citizen and committed his terroristic attack (directly against the U.S. government) on U.S. soil, but was tried, convicted and executed according to civilian law, as the Constitution demands.

Was it known that McVeigh was a terrorist at the time of his arrest?
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Re: Massive Explosions at Boston Marathon

Postby david cohen » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:16 pm

Thankfully the Obama Administration has announced the suspect will be tried as a civilian. I guess elections DO have consequences.
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Re: Massive Explosions at Boston Marathon

Postby Henry Vilas » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:17 pm

I think by definition, anyone who blows up a federal building and kills over a hundred people (including many little children) and wounds many hundreds more, is a terrorist. But you might disagree.
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Re: Massive Explosions at Boston Marathon

Postby Meade » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:36 pm

david cohen wrote:Thankfully the Obama Administration has announced the suspect will be tried as a civilian. I guess elections DO have consequences.

Yes. But they have a Miranda work-around. So Obama will be able to waterboard and torture him to get information after all.
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