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Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:36 am

MPMay wrote:I agree that his comments, "Who am I to judge?" about gay priests was a huge statement. I mean Huge. Wouldn't it be nice to throw that in Morlino's face?

I really think Francis could be on the right track. The difficulty, as with all politicians (and he is a politician, say what you will), is whether he has the energy and the skills to bend the institutions to his statements of belief. It is the difference between firing up the crowds at a campaign rally and delivering the necessary legislation.

As I said before, talk is cheap. Let's see if he can move Catholic dogma on the acceptance of gays. Or on anything else. If not, he will be as revolutionary as Howard Dean.

The talk is cheap.

Wedding photos cost gay teacher his job

Ken Bencomo, 45, was fired from St. Lucy's Priory after marrying his partner of 10 years, the San Bernardino Sun reported.

Officials were aware of Bencomo's sexual orientation for at least 10 of the 17 years he worked at the school, according to his lawyer Patrick McGarrigle.

"The reason given was that the marriage occurred and the school's position was that it violated church teachings," McGarrigle said.
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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby HawkHead » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:39 pm

Your friend and mine, Cardinal Timothy Dolan says the Pope was "high" from the Brazil visit and wasn't exactly talking correctly.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/cardi ... ce-101248/

I thought the Pope was infallible.
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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:54 pm

HawkHead wrote:Your friend and mine, Cardinal Timothy Dolan says the Pope was "high" from the Brazil visit and wasn't exactly talking correctly.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/cardi ... ce-101248/

I thought the Pope was infallible.


He also said the Pope wasn't empowered to change church policies. I think someone skipped a few lessons in catechism.
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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Mad Howler » Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:20 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:He also said the Pope wasn't empowered to change church policies.  I think someone skipped a few lessons in catechism.

Well I might agree with this if I did not witness Obama claim he has no power to shut down Gitmo, given his previous commitments:
http://swampland.time.com/2013/05/30/wh ... ver-close/
If our Commander in Chief cannot, who can?
Pretty shocking, no?

So, I am left thinking that we are stuck in a delusion of 'figureheadism' [yes-bland-I made that term up]. 

So much structural top down control today,
But do we really know who is on top?

BTW- there are others taking a more cautious look than I at the Pontiff,
I liked this one:
http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/i ... e-the-pope
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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby MPMay » Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:43 am

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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:45 pm

Mad Howler wrote:
Francis Di Domizio wrote:He also said the Pope wasn't empowered to change church policies.  I think someone skipped a few lessons in catechism.

Well I might agree with this if I did not witness Obama claim he has no power to shut down Gitmo


You're really comparing the power structure of the Vatican to that of the US Federal Government? The Pope is pretty much the guy who talks for god in the Catholic church. Obama is full of shit about Gitmo, but he does have to deal with a congress who can and has slapped down his plans when they require funding.
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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Mad Howler » Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:57 am

Francis Di Domizio wrote:You're really comparing the power structure of the Vatican to that of the US Federal Government?

Not nessessarily a fair comparison as we supposedly practice democracy in governance of this US of A!
'Figureheadism' rears its, well, head in many ways.
Because, you know, we are kind of wired for it.
This is a blessing and a curse.
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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:09 pm

When he was in Brazil, Pope Francis was asked about gay priests. He acknowledged their existence and then said: "Whom I am to judge?" It looks like a Catholic church in Wisconsin didn't understand the pope's message.

A Boy Scout troop that holds its meeting at a Catholic church in Altoona has been told to find a new place to gather.

Troop 90 has been meeting at St. Mary's Catholic Church for more than 20 years. Scoutmaster Bob Thill says the troop has been told it should find a new home after the end of the year because of concerns about the Boy Scouts' new policy to allow openly gay boys to join the program, beginning next year.

Rev. Derek Sakowski, of St. Mary's, says the church's pastoral council has strongly recommended cutting ties with Troop 90. Sakowski told the Eau Claire Leader-Telegram he will meet with parents from the troop before making a final decision on the Boy Scout meetings.
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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Mad Howler » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:42 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:When he was in Brazil, Pope Francis was asked about gay priests. He acknowledged their existence and then said: "Whom I am to judge?" It looks like a Catholic church in Wisconsin didn't understand the pope's message.

A Boy Scout troop that holds its meeting at a Catholic church in Altoona has been told to find a new place to gather.

Troop 90 has been meeting at St. Mary's Catholic Church for more than 20 years. Scoutmaster Bob Thill says the troop has been told it should find a new home after the end of the year because of concerns about the Boy Scouts' new policy to allow openly gay boys to join the program, beginning next year.

Rev. Derek Sakowski, of St. Mary's, says the church's pastoral council has strongly recommended cutting ties with Troop 90. Sakowski told the Eau Claire Leader-Telegram he will meet with parents from the troop before making a final decision on the Boy Scout meetings.

I have the sense that this Pope has the sense to lead away from real evil.
Taking the lead/speaking truth to powers beyond your own is risky.
Although, when real evil compels each of us to tend the barricade,
One must respect this compulsion.
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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Mad Howler » Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:37 am

This guy just keeps on rolling.
Pope Francis tightens Vatican bank controls

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23621235

As for US - the SEC is wrapping up their current trickle of investigations, levying a few fines and moving on.
No jail time for the 'special' class of money changers who have had a heavy hand in taking down our economy, nor will their tables be overturned.
Must be nice, but I imagine that these players are realizing gains of certain political investments they have made.
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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby wack wack » Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:14 am

HawkHead wrote:Your friend and mine, Cardinal Timothy Dolan says the Pope was "high" from the Brazil visit and wasn't exactly talking correctly.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/cardi ... ce-101248/

I thought the Pope was infallible.


This is correct: the Pope is infallible. he is not a politician as he has no need to negotiate with anyone. He is not comparable to Obama or any big-talking, small-acting ruler as there are not things he doesn't know that he doesn't know.

The Pope actually IS what many Republicans think they are: saying something makes it so.

As far as real Catholics are concerned, anyway.
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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:01 am

Henry Vilas wrote:When he was in Brazil, Pope Francis was asked about gay priests. He acknowledged their existence and then said: "Whom I am to judge?" It looks like a Catholic church in Wisconsin didn't understand the pope's message.


real change takes time, even if it comes from the top. JFK and LBJ supporting civil rights didn't make every democrat suddenly want to treat their fellow humans as equals. At least there is finally a guy in Rome willing to have a real conversation about it.
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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:55 pm

Reform, yes. But not so fast.

Vatican tells bishops not to reform faster than Pope Francis

This will give Morlino an excuse to slow things down.
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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Mad Howler » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:16 am

Henry Vilas wrote:Reform, yes. But not so fast.

Vatican tells bishops not to reform faster than Pope Francis

This will give Morlino an excuse to slow things down.

Meh, it is a big ship to steer - so we shall see.
For whatever it is worth, I am compelled to defend those who seek good and tend the barricades against evil and injustice.
This battle is not new, nor am I willing to sleep through it any longer.
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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Bludgeon » Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:06 am

If it takes a progressive pope to make folks feel like being religious, they should consider the possibility that they already are. It's like, 'Do you like sausage or not?' - A: 'I don't know; is it progressive sausage?'

Meaning, if you like it because of what it stands for, instead of what it is, you don't really like it.

I regard it as the apex of superstition, to only buy things or buy into things, if it's morally sanctioned by some sense of ideological authority.

'Cruelty free' tuna; 'fair trade' coffee; 'gay-friendly' pontiffs.

Ideologues should nevermind the pope - they've already got a religion. Then again, so does this milksop of a pope. Maybe he joined the wrong church? Or were Catholics looking for a delusional wet-mop willing to spend the rest of his days apologizing to the world? Come to think of it, that sounds Catholic-guilt-ish enough.

So, all is good then?
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