MOBILE USERS: m.isthmus.com
Connect with Isthmus on Twitter · Facebook · Flickr · Newsletters · Instagram 
Tuesday, September 23, 2014 |  Madison, WI: 49.0° F  Fair
Collapse Photo Bar

Automatic license plate readers

If it's news, but not politics, then it goes here.

Re: Automatic license plate readers

Postby Dangerousman » Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:20 pm

I am not sure what you mean by "involved" in legal cases involving open carry. I've never been charged for anything related to open carry. I was not at Culvers if that's what you mean. So I don't believe my name appears on any records related to open carry incidents.

The only "interactions", such as they were, that I've had with police related to open carry is that in the earlier days of open carry a group of us was on State Street and passed by at least 5 cops who paid no attention to us. Later one officer was sitting in his squad car and glanced up at us and then went back to looking at his clipboard in an obvious sign he wasn't feeling a need to take any action. Shortly after the Culvers incident another group of us were downtown following a meeting and I was with another individual who was open carrying on the Capitol Square and two officers on horseback gave us a long look and rode off on patrol.

The rest of the times--and there have been many-- that I've been out alone open carrying and there happen have been police around or passing by, they've either not noticed the gun or showed no particular interest in me or my gun if they did notice. Never have they asked me to identify myself. That could change tomorrow, but so far I have no reason to think when the police see me they know anything about me. They've showed no special interest and that is as it ought be in my opinion. I suppose it's possible that there's a database somewhere that says "guy about 6 feet tall with dark hair and a gun seen at the corner of X and Y walking his dog." and "guy about 6-ft with dark hair and gun seen at the deli in Woodmans--- could be the same guy seen at the corner of X and Y with dog on fill-in-the-date." But it wouldn't be a very useful database. And when I carried concealed, they'd be completely clueless that I had my gun on me and I'd just be another face in the crowd.
Dangerousman
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2292
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:28 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Automatic license plate readers

Postby Dangerousman » Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:29 pm

As for the handful of people who ever did receive a ticket for open carry, I highly doubt that in a routine traffic stop anything told to the officer by the dispatcher would connect that person to a prior open carry incident. If you ever listen to a police scanner the information provided to officers about another person is pretty general and lacking of detail unles the officer asks for more. Usually the dispatcher just says "no wants" (or in police lingo 'negative 29s') or "one prior speeding conviction."
Dangerousman
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2292
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:28 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Automatic license plate readers

Postby snoqueen » Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:34 pm

We're all the most paranoid about what seem to us to be the most imminent threats to our own lifestyles or practices. That's my conclusion after reading this topic and hearing other discussions, and it makes sense: someone who wants to drive fast probably doesn't like traffic surveillance, someone who wants to view porn might not care to have his internet viewing logged, and someone who wants to carry a gun around doesn't want to let others know (except when he does, which is another matter).

Some of the surveillance in question is government and some is private. Highway safety is understood to be a government function and red-light cameras are set up by the government. Other surveillance cameras are privately owned and managed, and such video frequently becomes publicly available and part of the public record.

Internet activity was mostly logged by the business entities involved unless you were clearly breaking laws against, say, child porn. We all know how NASA has changed that equation, of course.

Gun regulation is left up to private entities who put signs on their doors telling patrons not to enter with a gun, with enforcement probably upon request to the police since plenty of business owners are reluctant to confront and evict a gun carrier or confiscate his gun. In public, carriers are on their own because no one is allowed to see the database of licensees.

In all those examples, my point is that the line between private and governmental activities is very much blurred. For that reason, to place the preponderance of resentment, paranoia, or mistrust on one side or the other is not supported by the reality of the matter.

Government and private enterprise are inextricably enmeshed in 2013 and I don't see that changing any time soon. The citizen's point of leverage is generally thought to be the law, and that's a weak leverage given the paralysis we've got in government right now. But like it or not, you have even less leverage with big business. We get to take it or leave it, and leaving is next to impossible.

I'm not saying anybody should just roll over. Each of us picks our fights and our allies in a deliberate manner, if we are thoughtful.

But it's misguided to believe the government is the bad guy and business is OK, and it's misguided to believe the opposite way. Either one of those belief systems is more dogma than discernment.
snoqueen
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 11508
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:42 pm

Re: Automatic license plate readers

Postby Dangerousman » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:18 pm

snoqueen wrote:But it's misguided to believe the government is the bad guy and business is OK, and it's misguided to believe the opposite way. Either one of those belief systems is more dogma than discernment.


I agree with this statement. I don't believe anything in my post suggested that "goverment is the bad guy." I only suggested that the potential threat is greater when it is a "goverment gone wild" versus a "business gone wild."

Put yourself in a corral with a goat in one corner and a Brahma bull in another corner. Which corner is going to get more of your attention and concern?

If you're not sure, I suggest you attend a rodeo.
Dangerousman
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2292
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:28 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Automatic license plate readers

Postby rabble » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:24 pm

Dangerousman wrote:Put yourself in a corral with a goat in one corner and a Brahma bull in another corner. Which corner is going to get more of your attention and concern?

If you're not sure, I suggest you attend a rodeo.

I was going to take issue with your implication that business is to government as a goat is to a bull but if you allow that the goat can purchase or otherwise coerce the bull into doing whatever the goat wants, then I guess I can go along with it. I think it's more like two bulls of pretty much equal size these days but if you'll allow unlimited corruption in both, we can go with it.
rabble
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 6169
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:50 pm

Re: Automatic license plate readers

Postby wack wack » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:36 pm

You will meet neither bull nor goat in this arena; decades of interbreeding guarantee you won't know what the hell you're looking at in either corner.
wack wack
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3148
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2003 5:32 pm

Re: Automatic license plate readers

Postby Uncle Fester » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:52 am

Automatic license plate readers? That's nothing compared to what's on the horizon. States like California and Oregon are talking about installing GPS "black box" devices that would track and tax drivers for every mile they drive.

Who knows, with that kind of data available maybe they'll be able to track how fast you are going and deduct fines every time you happen to exceed the speed limit by a mile or two per hour.

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/08/12/30/ ... ?sdsrc=rel
Uncle Fester
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 975
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2002 3:26 pm

Re: Automatic license plate readers

Postby snoqueen » Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:09 am

I'd be happy if I thought the government was reliably the larger of the bull-and-goat comparison. These days , it's not so clear:

Gogebic versus the people in northern Wisconsin?

Too-big-to-fail banks versus government regulation?

Google's database of just about everybody, handily tapped by NASA hackers?

You've got to pick your fights more thoughtfully than in the past. It's not an either/or world.

And some cars already have manufacturer -installed original equipment recording devices, ostensibly to help tune performance and pinpoint problems. There's considerable question as to whether that data can be introduced in court as evidence or not -- that is, whether it is the property of the car owner and protected under his constitutional right not to incriminate himself, or is not so protected.
snoqueen
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 11508
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:42 pm

Previous

Return to Headlines

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

moviesmusiceats
Select a Movie
Select a Theater


commentsViewedForum
  ISTHMUS FLICKR

Promotions Contact us Privacy Policy Jobs Newsletters RSS
Collapse Photo Bar