MOBILE USERS: m.isthmus.com
Connect with Isthmus:         Newsletters 
Thursday, November 27, 2014 |  Madison, WI: 20.0° F  Mostly Cloudy
Collapse Photo Bar

Another officer involved fatal shooting

If it's news, but not politics, then it goes here.

Re: Another officer involved fatal shooting

Postby Stebben84 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:09 pm

And keep in mind they tased him and he still wasn't subdued.
Stebben84
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 5118
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:59 pm

Re: Another officer involved fatal shooting

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:12 pm

And if he's between them and the entrance to the house, where the officers believe a woman has been stabbed, there is some time sensitivity involved in terms of medical response to the reported victim.
Francis Di Domizio
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2619
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:11 pm
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Re: Another officer involved fatal shooting

Postby jman111 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:07 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:And if he's between them and the entrance to the house, where the officers believe a woman has been stabbed, there is some time sensitivity involved in terms of medical response to the reported victim.

For what it's worth, a news report that I saw stated that the officers ran behind the house (in pursuit of the suspect) upon arrival. The reporter pointed at the space between the house and garage to demonstrate the direction. If that was the case, access to the alleged victim was not an issue.
jman111
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3085
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:43 pm
Location: Dane County

Re: Another officer involved fatal shooting

Postby gargantua » Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:18 pm

I don't want to make this about the Heimsness issue, but when I read about this it reminded me of his very apparent irritations with dispatch. Maybe there was some validity to those complaints.
gargantua
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 4306
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2002 1:30 pm
Location: Madison

Re: Another officer involved fatal shooting

Postby Dust Mite Rodeo » Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:03 pm

Stebben84 wrote:And keep in mind they tased him and he still wasn't subdued.


So say you're just a bystander and they tase you anyways. The barb bounces off your corduroys and fail to shock you. So, for just jumping up and pointing out to the officer "Ha! you missed me, copper!", You deserve to be killed?
Dust Mite Rodeo
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 786
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:24 am
Location: Revival tent of the live-wire handlers

Re: Another officer involved fatal shooting

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:21 pm

Dust Mite Rodeo wrote:
Stebben84 wrote:And keep in mind they tased him and he still wasn't subdued.


So say you're just a bystander and they tase you anyways. The barb bounces off your corduroys and fail to shock you. So, for just jumping up and pointing out to the officer "Ha! you missed me, copper!", You deserve to be killed?


Ummm, when did the guy threatening to kill himself with a knife, and approaching the officers with the same knife suddenly become a bystander who was shot for taunting the officers?

jman111 wrote:For what it's worth, a news report that I saw stated that the officers ran behind the house (in pursuit of the suspect) upon arrival. The reporter pointed at the space between the house and garage to demonstrate the direction. If that was the case, access to the alleged victim was not an issue.


Didn't see that, but you are correct, it removes access to the victim from the equation. Still an issue of wielding a knife and moving towards someone is still pretty likely to be interpreted as a deadly threat.
Francis Di Domizio
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2619
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:11 pm
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Re: Another officer involved fatal shooting

Postby Stebben84 » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:46 am

Dust Mite Rodeo wrote:So say you're just a bystander and they tase you anyways. The barb bounces off your corduroys and fail to shock you. So, for just jumping up and pointing out to the officer "Ha! you missed me, copper!", You deserve to be killed?


Where in the article did it say the barbs "bounced off" the guy? All I said was that we should keep in mind he was tased. I never suggested who was right or wrong since I don't know all the info.
Stebben84
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 5118
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:59 pm

Re: Another officer involved fatal shooting

Postby Amelia Royko Maurer » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:02 pm

I'd appreciate it if someone could share the link to the open records file for this shooting. I haven't seen it yet.
Amelia Royko Maurer
Senior Member
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:45 pm

Re: Another officer involved fatal shooting

Postby Laboratory » Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:15 pm

Amelia Royko Maurer wrote:I'd appreciate it if someone could share the link to the open records file for this shooting. I haven't seen it yet.


Useful links within:

http://www.thedailypage.com/daily/artic ... icle=39294
Laboratory
Senior Member
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:41 am

Re: Another officer involved fatal shooting

Postby Amelia Royko Maurer » Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:56 pm

Laboratory wrote:
Amelia Royko Maurer wrote:I'd appreciate it if someone could share the link to the open records file for this shooting. I haven't seen it yet.


Useful links within:

http://www.thedailypage.com/daily/artic ... icle=39294



I mean for the Hammersley shooting.
Amelia Royko Maurer
Senior Member
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:45 pm

Re: Another officer involved fatal shooting

Postby Laboratory » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:19 pm

Amelia Royko Maurer wrote:
Laboratory wrote:
Amelia Royko Maurer wrote:I'd appreciate it if someone could share the link to the open records file for this shooting. I haven't seen it yet.


Useful links within:

http://www.thedailypage.com/daily/artic ... icle=39294



I mean for the Hammersley shooting.


Sorry, that would make more sense. I have been looking for it too, and I just looked again... if it is out there, its not wanting to be found yet.
Laboratory
Senior Member
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:41 am

Re: Another officer involved fatal shooting

Postby Amelia Royko Maurer » Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:57 am

HOW DO WE DEFINE COMMUNITY AND TRUST BASED POLICING?
WHEN IS DEADLY FORCE ACCEPTABLE TO THE COMMUNITY?
WHAT DO WE WANT FOR OUR NEXT POLICE CHIEF?
ALL INFORMATION WILL BE REPORTED TO THE POLICE AND FIRE COMMISSION.

Wed, Oct. 16th, 7-9pm
The First Congressional Church
1609 University Ave.

Speakers:
*State Rep. Chris Taylor
*UW Law Professor, Michael Scott
*Former MPD Captain of Training, Cheri Maples
*Open community discussion to submit your input to the Police and Fire Commission.

NOW is a crucial time for community input, as the Police & Fire Commission will soon be selecting a new Chief for the Madison Police Department. This is the time for the community to have a voice on key issues affecting us right now, including:

1) The current police standard for the use of deadly force. Since November 2012, with the unnecessary shooting of an unarmed man on the east side, there have been 3 police shootings resulting in the death of citizens - deaths that many people believe were preventable.

2) The current practice of law enforcement investigating themselves in use-of-force incidents. It is not fair to either law enforcement or to the community they serve to expect the department to be able to investigate their friends and colleagues in an objective, unbiased manner. This is especially true when the use of force results in death.

You can make a difference! If there is to be change, it requires YOU to take action. Please join your community in helping transform current problematic police practices in these areas - let your voice be heard, and listen to others, as the Police & Fire Commission begins its process of hiring a new Chief.

Please help spread the word and pass this along! Forward this to your friends!
https://www.facebook.com/events/224439901046441/

"'Someone ought to do it, but why should I?' -- 'Someone ought to do it, so why not I?' Between these two sentences lie whole centuries of moral evolution."

~ Annie Besant
Amelia Royko Maurer
Senior Member
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:45 pm

Re: Another officer involved fatal shooting

Postby Dangerousman » Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:43 pm

I'm not sure what input from the "community" you're expecting regarding the "current police standard for the use of deadly force." The department's "standard" closely reflects the standards established in the state statutes, which are similar to most self-defense laws across the country. In almost every instance the police have the same standards as you and I.

But there are a couple of differences that I think are important. 1) Police have an obligation to insert themselves into dangerous situations as part of their job duties. The rest of us do not have that obligation. When possible we are allowed to retreat from threatening circumstances, and if we sense an obligation to not retreat, it's because we've imposed that obligation upon ourselves personally. People do not choose to become police officers because they want to be hurt or killed by acting according to their obligation to deal with things the rest of us may be able to avoid, and as much as possible, prudently would avoid. Knowing that at any moment a cop on duty could be enjoying his or her coffee and donut one minute and rushing to a scene that everyone else is trying to flee from in the next minute probably results in the development of an slight "war zone" mentality. It's just a normal psychological manifestation of the instinct for self-preservation. When you're in a war zone you can't just wish yourself out of it, you have to do whatever it takes to stay alive until you are allowed to leave it. Of course it's equally true that the rest of us could be enjoying our coffee and donuts and find ourselves in harm's way the next minute too. But I doubt most people think about that very often, or if they do, it just seems too remote of a possibility.

2) I will agree that if there is an issue that needs to be looked at, it's how police use of force is investigated. It's not just that the police investigate the police, but also that the district attorney, who is normally a working partner with the police, issues the final determination. For the rest of us, we do not enjoy a working relationship with the District Attorney. I find the idea of a truly independent investigatory board interesting at least. Of course right now, if you don't like the way the DA conducts himself or herself, feel free to vote to elect someone else.

The selection of a new police chief is important I suppose. The recent shootings came under Noble Wray's watch, but I don't see any reason to believe that among his flaws is included encouragement or even tolerance of the unjustifiable use of deadly force. Not so sure the same can be said of the Milwaukee chief. So it's certainly important to try to avoid Madison getting a police chief similar to what the people of Milwaukee are currently enduring.
Dangerousman
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2292
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:28 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Another officer involved fatal shooting

Postby Amelia Royko Maurer » Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:39 pm

Chief Wray was, in 3 conversations with me, unable to explain how Heimsness met the moral standard of the use of deadly force policy. At least two retired Chiefs and one retired capt. in the community question or do not believe Heimsness met the moral standard. Anonymous police officers have stated to me that they do not have confidence in Wray's choice. That, along with the statements of all witnesses and Heimsness' history of comments and has lead us to believe that perhaps it is worth MPD's time to have someone, who is objectively impartial, find out as much about Stephan Heimsness' life as they did about Paul Heenan's life.

Heimsness is a public servant sanctioned by the state to take lives of people only when they pose a deadly threat so grave, there is absolutely no other less lethal option available to stop that threat. He had options that he failed to notice for instance, another officer with a taser standing merely feet away.

Not a single Madison officer has been found in the wrong for killing a civilian in 125 years. That's impossible and if MPD says it isn't, then they should welcome an outside, impartial review of their investigation and support this Bill: http://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/e ... ric-change
Amelia Royko Maurer
Senior Member
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:45 pm

Re: Another officer involved fatal shooting

Postby ilikebeans » Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:07 pm

Amelia Royko Maurer wrote:That's impossible and if MPD says it isn't, then they should welcome an outside, impartial review of their investigation

Is the U.S. Department of Justice still in the process of reviewing the case? I haven't heard an update since this story in February.
ilikebeans
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2837
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:23 am

PreviousNext

Return to Headlines

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

moviesmusiceats
Select a Movie
Select a Theater


commentsViewedForum
  ISTHMUS FLICKR
Created with flickr badge.

cron
Promotions Contact us Privacy Policy Jobs Newsletters RSS
Collapse Photo Bar