MOBILE USERS: m.isthmus.com
Connect with Isthmus on Twitter · Facebook · Flickr · Newsletters · Instagram 
Friday, September 19, 2014 |  Madison, WI: 59.0° F  Partly Cloudy with Haze
Collapse Photo Bar

Wouldn't it be great if everybody had a gun?

If it's news, but not politics, then it goes here.

Re: Wouldn't it be great if everybody had a gun?

Postby jman111 » Thu May 01, 2014 3:26 pm

How about expanding "Stand Your Ground" laws as a back-door effort to ban abortion?
The Senate panel took the vote during a meeting to discuss three bills: one called the "Pregnant Women's Protection Act," sponsored by state Sen. Katrina Shealy, R-Lexington, and two bills that would extend constitutional rights to human embryos at the point of conception, sponsored by state Sen. Lee Bright, R-Spartanburg.

The bill the panel approved also includes a definition of "unborn child" as "the offspring of human beings from conception until birth."

Abortion-rights activists say that efforts to pass such definitions into law are back-door efforts to establish legal precedent for banning abortion.

Would this open the door to legalized killing of abortion providers?
jman111
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3000
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:43 pm
Location: Dane County

Re: Wouldn't it be great if everybody had a gun?

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri May 02, 2014 9:15 am

A Maryland gun dealer was going to be the first one in the nation to sell smart guns, but that upset some gun nuts, who have threatened to kill him (with a dumb gun, I assume). The dealer has since backed down. Must be because of FREEDOM!

A Rockville gun store owner who said he would sell the nation’s first smart gun — even after a California gun store removed the weapon from its shelves to placate angry gun-rights activists — backed down late Thursday night after enduring a day of protests and death threats.

Andy Raymond, the co-owner of Engage Armament, a store known for its custom assault rifles, had said earlier this week that offering the Armatix iP1 handgun was a “really tough decision” after what happened to the Oak Tree Gun Club near Los Angeles. Oak Tree was lambasted by gun owners and National Rifle Association members who fear the new technology will be mandated and will encroach on Second Amendment rights.
Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 19875
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all

Re: Wouldn't it be great if everybody had a gun?

Postby wack wack » Fri May 02, 2014 9:22 am

jman111 wrote:How about expanding "Stand Your Ground" laws as a back-door effort to ban abortion?
The Senate panel took the vote during a meeting to discuss three bills: one called the "Pregnant Women's Protection Act," sponsored by state Sen. Katrina Shealy, R-Lexington, and two bills that would extend constitutional rights to human embryos at the point of conception, sponsored by state Sen. Lee Bright, R-Spartanburg.

The bill the panel approved also includes a definition of "unborn child" as "the offspring of human beings from conception until birth."

Abortion-rights activists say that efforts to pass such definitions into law are back-door efforts to establish legal precedent for banning abortion.

Would this open the door to legalized killing of abortion providers?


I think Stand Your Ground laws should be used to protect those who seek and provide abortions. You can shoot an intruder on your porch but not one growing inside you? Illogical, to say the least.
wack wack
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3147
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2003 5:32 pm

Re: Wouldn't it be great if everybody had a gun?

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Fri May 02, 2014 9:32 am

wack wack wrote:I think Stand Your Ground laws should be used to protect those who seek and provide abortions. You can shoot an intruder on your porch but not one growing inside you? Illogical, to say the least.


I think you still have to prove that you felt you felt a real threat to life or limb.

not just your social life. Oh hey Mickey Mouse club house is on again.
Francis Di Domizio
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2418
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:11 pm
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Re: Wouldn't it be great if everybody had a gun?

Postby wack wack » Fri May 02, 2014 9:50 am

Francis Di Domizio wrote:
wack wack wrote:I think Stand Your Ground laws should be used to protect those who seek and provide abortions. You can shoot an intruder on your porch but not one growing inside you? Illogical, to say the least.


I think you still have to prove that you felt you felt a real threat to life or limb.

not just your social life. Oh hey Mickey Mouse club house is on again.


Pregnancy risks up to and including death are well known. There is no such thing as a risk-less pregnancy.
wack wack
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3147
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2003 5:32 pm

Re: Wouldn't it be great if everybody had a gun?

Postby peripat » Fri May 02, 2014 9:50 am

Francis Di Domizio wrote:
wack wack wrote:I think Stand Your Ground laws should be used to protect those who seek and provide abortions. You can shoot an intruder on your porch but not one growing inside you? Illogical, to say the least.


I think you still have to prove that you felt you felt a real threat to life or limb.

not just your social life. Oh hey Mickey Mouse club house is on again.


Well that part is easy enough. Women are much more likely (14 times more likely) to die from childbirth than from abortion

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/ ... BS20120123
peripat
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1012
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 1:59 am

Re: Wouldn't it be great if everybody had a gun?

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Fri May 02, 2014 10:18 am

Wow, those are two incredibly poor arguments in support of using stand your ground to justify abortion, which I would love to go into at length because this thread has not had nearly enough pointless debate about legal issues that aren't really the issue...


Sorry, I assumed the fact that I was responding to wack wack's joke (at least I hope it was a joke), and mentioned an insipid kid's show would have made it clear I was not being serious.

But please elaborate on the health risks of pregnancy. At least it would add something new to this thread. Having two children, I've never heard any of this at all. Ever. :thumbup:
Francis Di Domizio
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2418
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:11 pm
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Re: Wouldn't it be great if everybody had a gun?

Postby wack wack » Fri May 02, 2014 11:26 am

Francis Di Domizio wrote:Wow, those are two incredibly poor arguments in support of using stand your ground to justify abortion, which I would love to go into at length because this thread has not had nearly enough pointless debate about legal issues that aren't really the issue...


Sorry, I assumed the fact that I was responding to wack wack's joke (at least I hope it was a joke), and mentioned an insipid kid's show would have made it clear I was not being serious.


Joke? It was satirical commentary... but seeing as you seem to think these arguments regarding Stand Your Ground are ridiculous but others are not, I'm not surprised you missed that.

Furthermore, are you serious that you need an elaboration on the risks of pregnancy? Were you really not aware that pregnancy is a risky proposition? I think you're lying. You've proven yourself too smart to be that stupid.
wack wack
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3147
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2003 5:32 pm

Re: Wouldn't it be great if everybody had a gun?

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Fri May 02, 2014 11:52 am

Wow, I thought I had snark turned up past 11 on that last paragraph...

I do apologize for mistaking your satire for an attempt at humor.

I think your satirical argument in support of using stand your ground to deal with the immediate threat brought on by pregnancy is ridiculous because most pregnant women are not in a position to know that there is a an actual and not just possible threat to their life and certainly cannot effectively remove that threat without assistance. On the other hand a properly trained medical professional can do both. Since stand your ground doesn't apply to aiding another person whose life is in danger, I don't think the law can be effectively applied.
Francis Di Domizio
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2418
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:11 pm
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Re: Wouldn't it be great if everybody had a gun?

Postby peripat » Fri May 02, 2014 11:55 am

On reflection I really like 'stand your ground' as protection for abortions and providers. At least in the case of pregnancy there is documentation of the damage that can be caused if said pregnancy is continued.
Most shooters are not in a position to know that their lives are in danger either, the assumption is enough. And as pregnancy can certainly end in death for the woman with no previous medical indicators so certainly the possibility of danger has to be enough.
peripat
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1012
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 1:59 am

Re: Wouldn't it be great if everybody had a gun?

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Fri May 02, 2014 12:05 pm

The problem is I could use that argument to shoot anyone I see getting behind the wheel of a car. Car accidents kill a lot of people.

Intent plays into the discussion. Does a reasonable person (am I really having this discussion?) think that the intent of the zygote is to kill its host? I suspect you'll have a hard time convincing a jury of that.

On the other hand if you gun down a kid coming back from the store, it's perfectly believable that he intended to bludgeon you to death with his twizzlers. Especially if no one else was around to hear the vile threats he was spewing.
Francis Di Domizio
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2418
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:11 pm
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Re: Wouldn't it be great if everybody had a gun?

Postby wack wack » Fri May 02, 2014 12:05 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:I think your satirical argument in support of using stand your ground to deal with the immediate threat brought on by pregnancy is ridiculous because most pregnant women are not in a position to know that there is a an actual and not just possible threat to their life and certainly cannot effectively remove that threat without assistance.


Are you suggesting that Stand Your Ground only is and has been used when the threat to life is clearly imminent? That would be false.

And what peripat just posted.
wack wack
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3147
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2003 5:32 pm

Re: Wouldn't it be great if everybody had a gun?

Postby wack wack » Fri May 02, 2014 12:13 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:Intent plays into the discussion. Does a reasonable person (am I really having this discussion?) think that the intent of the zygote is to kill its host? I suspect you'll have a hard time convincing a jury of that.


Reasonable people realize that another's pregnancy, and how it ultimately resolves, is none of their goddamned business.

It is the faithful who might engage you in such a discussion.
wack wack
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3147
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2003 5:32 pm

Re: Wouldn't it be great if everybody had a gun?

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Fri May 02, 2014 12:17 pm

Ah but if you use the positive defense of stand your ground it becomes a matter of public record.

Besides this thread is about guns, and I think we can all agree that a woman who finds herself infested with fertilized eggs should not be attempting to remove said infestation herself using firearms.
Francis Di Domizio
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2418
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:11 pm
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Re: Wouldn't it be great if everybody had a gun?

Postby rabble » Fri May 02, 2014 1:56 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote: I think we can all agree that a woman who finds herself infested with fertilized eggs should not be attempting to remove said infestation herself using firearms.

Okay NOW the thread has moved in a positive direction, giving timely advice for citizens in need of self help.
rabble
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 6157
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:50 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Headlines

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

moviesmusiceats
Select a Movie
Select a Theater


commentsViewedForum
  ISTHMUS FLICKR

Promotions Contact us Privacy Policy Jobs Newsletters RSS
Collapse Photo Bar