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A comparison (another gun thread)

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Re: A comparison (another gun thread)

Postby Dangerousman » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:23 am

Stebben84 wrote:This thread is going down the same wormhole the last gun threads did. The same exact shit is being said. It's like Groundhog Day.


Kindly send my royalties check please. Thank you.
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Re: A comparison (another gun thread)

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:29 am

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Re: A comparison (another gun thread)

Postby Ducatista » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:25 am

Dangerousman wrote:I don't know. From what I've read in another thread, evolution is still controversial!

Ha! Fair point.
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Re: A comparison (another gun thread)

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:22 am

Dangerousman wrote:I've offered my opinion a number of times that violent crime is caused by a complex combination of socioeconomic, cultural and educational factors, and only when those hard questions are examined and addressed will there be real progress. The tendancy has been to avoid those hard questions and try to go after the easy targets. That's far more show than substance in crime reduction.


No argument here, I think the focus on assault weapons is a perfect example of this issue. Not that I think anyone really needs an AR-15, but assault weapon mass shootings make up such a tiny percentage of gun deaths and draw such a disportionate response in terms of outcry.

Dangerousman wrote:Going after guns and legal gun owners does nothing to reduce violent crime, but it does often criminalize things that heretofore were perfectly legal. One ought to try to cure the disease, and not simply attack symptoms.


I don't think criminalizing any gun is the right answer at this point in time, but I also don't think making legal gun buyers prove they are eligible to buy the gun no matter where they buy it is the same as criminalizing it. It might not make it impossible for criminals to get guns, but it will have some impact, and frankly in terms of fairness, I don't see how you can hold a licensed vendor in his own shop to a higher standard than some random guy you find on craigslist.

I do think those who, due to negligent handling or storage of firearms (or other weapons), cause injury or death need to face stiffer penalties.

Dangerousman wrote:There's been mention in this thread the fact that the majority of firearms-related deaths in the US are suicides, with the suggestion that there would be fewer suicides if there were fewer guns available.

To be quite honest, until we as a country get serious about mental health treatment and diagnosis, I don't think suicides or mass shooting have any place in a discussion about gun control. If we care about the issue, we should address the actual issue, not focus on the tool used.
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Re: A comparison (another gun thread)

Postby Dangerousman » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:31 pm



But with some big "ifs" as part of the proposal, right?

Let me ask another question (that you'll probably evade), Henry. For the sake of argument, let's say we both agree that Iowa's plan to allow legally blind people to get concealed carry permits is idiotic. Would you object to one of those people getting permitted if their sight has been restored to an acceptable level?
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Re: A comparison (another gun thread)

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:33 pm

Can legally blind people get a permit for concealed carry in Wisconsin? Please keep us informed.
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Re: A comparison (another gun thread)

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:41 pm

I asked you this yesterday, so it's your turn to answer.
Henry Vilas wrote:You certainly live in Fantasyland. What cilivians should have been armed with an AR-i5 at the elementary school or at the Navy yard where those mass murders occurred?

Details, please.
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Re: A comparison (another gun thread)

Postby Dangerousman » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:53 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:in terms of fairness, I don't see how you can hold a licensed vendor in his own shop to a higher standard than some random guy you find on craigslist.


I agree with your post except for this passage. I don't think there's anything improper or unusual about holding a licensed individual to a higher standard-- whether that person is giving you legal advice, medical treatment, a haircut, or selling a firearm. As licensees, they not only have higher standards to uphold, but in exchange they are often granted privileges or powers that non-licensees do not have. For example, I might be able to give you advice about how to make your bad back feel better, but I can't write you a prescription for a muscle relaxant and pain killers nor can I order x-rays. And I could sell you a gun I happen to own that is sitting in my safe, but I can't order one from a manufacturer or distributor, or import one from another state to sell you. Nor could I sell it to you if you live in another state, without getting a licensed person involved to do the transfer.
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Re: A comparison (another gun thread)

Postby Dangerousman » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:21 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Can legally blind people get a permit for concealed carry in Wisconsin? Please keep us informed.


Probably. I don't recall anything in the statute or administrative code that disqualifies them. Nor do I think they should be disqualfied. The Wisconsin license allows someone not to just carry a concealed handgun, but a knife, club or electric weapon. If you think someone who is more vulnerable than an average person should be further hindered in their ability to protect themself then I think that's rather cold-hearted of you.

And it's condescending to assume they can't make reasonable decisions about what they have the ability to use.

Most defensive shootings occur very closes distances. More than likely within a step or two away. One does not need 20/20 vision to do this kind of shooting. One does not necessarily need to even carry a gun, but they do need a license to carry those other types of weapons concealed, and if it's an electric weapon like a stun gun, they need a license to just carry it off their property without having it inside a carrying case where it is inaccessible.
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Re: A comparison (another gun thread)

Postby Dangerousman » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:29 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:I asked you this yesterday, so it's your turn to answer.
Henry Vilas wrote:You certainly live in Fantasyland. What cilivians should have been armed with an AR-i5 at the elementary school or at the Navy yard where those mass murders occurred?

Details, please.


On that particular day, all of them. But realistically for the sake of convenience, few people will carry an AR-15 on a daily basis. The cops don't do it, they wait until there's an event that indicates the use of an AR-15, then they break it out.

But I'll bet you there were a lot of people who WISH they had an AR-15 with them that day. Probably more wished they have been allowed to carry at least a hand gun.
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Re: A comparison (another gun thread)

Postby baked goods » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:40 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:the NRA has lobbied for legislation to allow the mentally ill access to firearms.


The left wants to let them drive cars on the highway. Why not let them carry a gun too?
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Re: A comparison (another gun thread)

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:50 pm

Dangerousman wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Can legally blind people get a permit for concealed carry in Wisconsin? Please keep us informed.


Probably. I don't recall anything in the statute or administrative code that disqualifies them. Nor do I think they should be disqualfied.

Yet, just a few posts before you wrote this:
Dangerousman wrote: let's say we both agree that Iowa's plan to allow legally blind people to get concealed carry permits is idiotic.

Let's say you like to argue on both sides of this issue.
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Re: A comparison (another gun thread)

Postby Dangerousman » Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:23 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
Dangerousman wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Can legally blind people get a permit for concealed carry in Wisconsin? Please keep us informed.


Probably. I don't recall anything in the statute or administrative code that disqualifies them. Nor do I think they should be disqualfied.

Yet, just a few posts before you wrote this:
Dangerousman wrote: let's say we both agree that Iowa's plan to allow legally blind people to get concealed carry permits is idiotic.

Let's say you like to argue on both sides of this issue.


Why don't you provide a full citation to what I wrote? "For the sake of the sake of the argument..."

Don't you know what that means?
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Re: A comparison (another gun thread)

Postby pjbogart » Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:03 pm

Douchey McPredictable! You came back!

I honestly can't understand why anyone argues with Dangerousman. He's literally stroking his cock while arguing with you about guns. Just let him finish and he'll lose interest.
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Re: A comparison (another gun thread)

Postby Dangerousman » Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:30 pm

pjbogart wrote:Douchey McPredictable! You came back!

I honestly can't understand why anyone argues with Dangerousman. He's literally stroking his cock while arguing with you about guns. Just let him finish and he'll lose interest.


Is that you trying to peek in my windows at night, Douchey McPervert? Well at least we can look forward to your absence in future arguments here.

But the idea of you fantasizing about me that way... ooo man... that's creepy. Do you do that often? No, I don't really care to know.
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