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Tolerance message from United Church of Christ censored

If it's news, but not politics, then it goes here.

Do think messages of tolerance and inclusion should be censored?

Yes, we need censorship for freedom.
2
8%
Yes, censorship is the price of civility.
0
No votes
Yes, only religious views of bigotry and prejudice should be allowed
7
28%
No. We love our freedom.
16
64%
 
Total votes : 25

Postby bubbaquimby » Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:42 pm

Today's captimes has an article from a retired bishop of the ELCA (the church I currently go to is a member). He states the position I have, religion should stay out of goverment and goverment should stay out of religion.

http://www.madison.com/tct/mad/opinion//index.php?ntid=20054
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Postby Ducatista » Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:37 pm

bubbaquimby wrote:My dad is Catholic and would probably call you a "cafetria Catholic" because you pick and choice what parts of the bible and of Jesus's teachings to belive in.

Actually, I'm a "cultural Catholic." Born and raised, eight years of Catholic grade school, big part of my cultural identity. I do not practice Catholicism, though I agree with some of the fundamental tenets such as "be good to others" and "rejoice in the wonder that surrounds you" and "you are accountable for your actions," and "live according to your beliefs," none of which is exclusive to the church.

bubbaquimby wrote:I would contest that there is millions of gay Christians since there is only about 2-3 million gays and I highly doubt they are mostly Christian. And also there are those that don't think they should be 1. married, and 2. married in a church.

Over six billion humans (2 billion Christians), and only 2-3 million gays? You must mean American gays. Even if you choose not to look beyond the US, 2-3 million is an unfortunate undercounting. Wishing doesn't make it so.


Of course we will never agree on this one. You probably see your religion as a connection with God, a path to grace, with holy sacraments that serve to acknowledge and strengthen the bond and commitment between you and God. You think it's good and right to deny one of those holy sacraments to gay couples. You embrace an exlusionary view which is hurtful to many of your fellow men and women, and has a negative impact on society as a whole, because like it or not, the effects of your church's discrimination extend beyond the confines of your church. (That's a tricky thing about discrimination, it tends not to stay where you put it.) I wish you didn't hold that exclusionary view, but again, wishing doesn't make it so.

I do agree with you and Mr. Chilstrom that church and state ought to enjoy a cordial but cool relationship. Too friendly, and both sides are in trouble.
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Postby Mike S. » Sun Dec 05, 2004 4:48 am

The best discussion of Christianity with respect to homosexuality was written by Peter McWilliams, in a book now available on-line. One good section for this is:

http://www.mcwilliams.com/books/books/aint/309.htm

I regard Peter McWilliams as a martyr in both the secular and the religious sense. Publishing this book and working for the medical marijuana referendum in California caused him to be targeted by federal agents in the action that led to his death.
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Postby white_rabbit » Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:24 pm

bubbaquimby wrote:I would contest that there is millions of gay Christians since there is only about 2-3 million gays and I highly doubt they are mostly Christian.


Try about 12-20 million LGBT people in the US.
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Postby Chuck_Schick » Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:32 pm

white_rabbit wrote:Try about 12-20 million LGBT people in the US.

You're the homo, you try 'em.

Heh. Sorry, Wabbit, I just couldn't resist. Heh.
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Postby dtray2064 » Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:01 pm

This ad is too contraversial in yet when a member of the right slips up and makes a racist, sexist or homophobic comment, somehow anybody left of George Bush is a cry-baby liberal? I love irony. Actually, it's killing us all.
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Postby white_rabbit » Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:42 pm

Chuck_Schick wrote:
white_rabbit wrote:Try about 12-20 million LGBT people in the US.

You're the homo, you try 'em.



I'm working on it.
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